I think 10 years minimum.

A lot of it would depend on how the MLB players left though. Like, if a meteor just killed all 750+ of them at one time, I think it's like 10 years. If they all just retired because of some labor dispute or something and the league essentially "started over", I think it's like 15-20 years minimum, or more likely it never fully recovers. People root for laundry at the end of the day but strikes have nearly killed leagues and this would be a little more severe.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Exactly.

Baseball survives? Yes, and that is a good thought.

Would there be a difference after three years? Yes. To say otherwise is a terrible, "bat shit crazy," thought.

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The White Sox are going to be pretty much different than they were three years ago. I really don't think it would be that drastic if it were that way for every team. I don't think James's point was that a natural disaster wiped out all rosters or a Leftovers type event occurred and nobody cared after three years.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He basically said no one is bigger than the game. And the Red Sox social media department was triggered by this harmless statement.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The question comes down to whether the next-best 750 players currently not in MLB would be noticeably different as a whole. Clearly we cannot say all 750 current players are the best in the world as there are artificial reasons many of them have jobs...there are players who are active for reasons other than their ability, such as those on long-term mega contracts who are way past their prime. Then you have players who are unproven or thought to have high ceilings that may never reach them. MANY of those would be interchangeable with some of the players in that next tier of 750.

If the players were replaced en masse, I think you'd still have the batting champ hitting .330 or so, players would hit 40+ homers, pitchers would strike out and walk batters at the same rates. Would we miss Betts and Trout? Yes, but maybe the next Betts or Trout are waiting in the wings now and would just get their opportunity quicker.

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If James is saying that baseball "the game" will always be bigger than the players he is probably right. I don't care how long it took but it would recover about anything including all players disappearing. So what if the pitching is two steps below current. The batting and fielding would be as well.

The institution of the game is the thing that is loved.

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Elections have consequences.

If he said no player was bigger than the game this thread doesn't exist. He worded it in a pretty silly way. But I think pretty much everyone here except the OP would say the Red Sox are the bigger DBs here.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Except that's exactly what he said.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Now if KLaw said this...

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That's wrong. Here's what he said:

If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever . . . The players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are.

If you change that to No one player is bigger than the game, you really think there's a three page thread about it right now and think he would be taking a lot of shit on Twitter yesterday for it(which was wrong)? I think the answer is clear.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He spelled out what that cliched saying really means. It's more than one player.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

GEORGE: You know Keith, what I've always wondered, with all these ball clubs flying around all season don't you think there would be a plane crash? ...

KEITH: (to Jerry) Do you perform anywhere in new York right now?

JERRY: I'm performing in this club on the east Side. You should come in.

GEORGE: But if you think about it...26 teams, 162 games a season, you'd think eventually an entire team would get wiped out.

KEITH: You know, I live on the East Side.

JERRY: I'll tell you what, I'll give you my number and uh, just give me a call, tell me whenever you want to go.

KEITH: or maybe just to get together for a cup of coffee

JERRY: Oh. that would be great.

GEORGE: It's only a matter of time.

KEITH: Who's this chucker?

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Obviously he was saying the players change but the game goes on. Weird for a big "The Wire" fan like FF to miss this obvious homage to the show

Stretch!

But if we are doing that then he would say the next generation would be better baseball players. No life outside of dominating baseball.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The king stay the king, a'ight?

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1965 American League MVP

aight JORR

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I have learned on this board that Justin Bieber is better than the Beatles. Thanks, Rick! But was Marlo Stanfield a greater druglord than Avon Barksdale?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Were the GS Warriors a greater team than the Cavs last season?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

True, information is good, but imo only up to a point. Beyond that point it seems to invite virtual paralysis by analysis. I just happen to believe that many sabremetrician/baseball fans blew well that point 10-15 years ago and it became tiresome to hear them pontificate excessively about minutae. While I don't believe wins or RBI totals are the ultimate arbiter of who's truly valuable, there is a human element that can be directly attributed to them that is important. Regardless of whether or not a green eyeshade guy retroactively looking at numbers to feel self important about his work. Or his followers. I firmly believe in the clutch gene and most who have played any truly competitive sport would tend to agree. I also think the sounds of the game are more telling than the specifics of the radar gun or analytical geometry.

The eye test isn't perfect by a longshot, but I rely much more on that for my enjoyment of the game than knowing/worrying about the statistical advantage. And James' arrogance continues to reveal what he is now, a guy comfortable in his own echo chamber with guys like Brian Kenny & Bernstein constantly fawning over his every nugget. And ultimately don't seem to enjoy the game, just the importance on the statistics that fit James' theories.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

FavreFan, is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?

Excellent post.

We gotta get back to disagreeing here soon for old time's sake.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

These are the same idiots who try to reduce players to "assets." They have no respect for them. They think they can wipe out an entire generation of players and the game won't miss a beat. That's beyond absurd. If that were to happen the game might never get back to the level it's at now but they think it won't miss a beat. I'm glad he's taking an ass pounding. I hope the old bastard gets fired.

Has any team been more delighted to dispose of its no-longer-useful players than the Red Sox?

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Ridiculous. There will be a day- and it will happen quicker than you think- when nobody that is on a big league roster today is playing anymore and the game will look exactly the same as it does now.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Well... of course. I mean, that's obvious to the point of not needing to be stated. It's not the same thing Bill James said.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What's funny to me is that all the bloggers who love analytics and hate anything else are highly verbal people who in every other aspect of their lives have no real inclination toward math or anything left-hemisphere. Bernstein is a crossword nerd who has joked about doing the bare jock-level minimum of math courses in college, Ken Tremendous is a comedy writer, and all the Deadspin people are always otherwise writing gauzy feelings stuff like "We Need To Talk About The Way We Talk About Intersectionality In Expanded-Tier Sports Cable Television." But then you get into baseball stats and suddenly everyone is John Nash. It's a cargo cult of intelligence, I suspect. Meanwhile, I wouldn't be shocked to find out a guy screaming for a stolen base or agonizing that the power play won't SHOOOOOOOOT is actually an engineer.

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That's a damn fine description of it.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

We need more people in baseball that think Robin Ventura is a great manager.

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I am honestly suprised there hasn't been a VERY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION about referring to players as "assets."

Professional athetes are predominantly people of color, and attempting to dehumanize them by referring to them as inanimate objects to be bought and sold by predominantly white owners evokes images of slavery that is deeply troubling.