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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:05 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
This is just another thread about a perceived double standard.


Nas, do you seriously doubt whether there is a real (as opposed to "perceived") double standard when it comes to media coverage of stories like this, and that standard is based on immutable qualities like race, ethnicity and, sometimes, religion of the various actors?
This thread has obviously taken multiple turns over the subsequent 6 pages, but I'd like to return to this particular intriguing question.

Do you have any evidence of actual discriminatory intent on the part of the media? Disparate coverage alone is simply insufficient to make a credible claim that the media is consciously applying any kind of double standard here. Charges of things like conscious racism or at least conscious racial bias are very serious and potentially damaging to the accused's reputation. I wouldn't want you to be engaged in any kind of uncharitable mindreading.

I'm also unaware of how you've arrived at any kind of conclusion of a real vs. perceived double standard without any kind of rigorous quantitative study. Given that you're such an empiricist, I'd love to see the data and evidence you've no doubt accumulated on both the existence of a double standard and what's creating it.


I don't think a "double standard" requires intent to discriminate, it simply exists or it doesn't. The disparate coverage IS the evidence.

But if you want evidence of racial bias from media members, I think the prevalence of phrases like "white men need too..." or "white people should..." speaks for itself. You know it exists and is quite prevalent even from mainstream media outlets.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
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I don’t like or trust the cops. I’d call them or have someone else call them in the meantime but I’m not the type to watch something like that go down, even knowing about th bystander effect and all that.

What’s your end game here?



No end game. There are times that a "higher power" like the police or corporate or whatever should handle things but sometimes in a moment you personally have to decide what is right or wrong and it will vary from person to person. I don't blame that manager at all for asking for payment up front from a guy or group that has routinely stolen or attempted to steal from her or the company. I don't expect anybody to put themselves in danger but they should have some freedom to assess a situation and do what is right.

I agree with that. I also see Sam’s side of it and think he made several valid points and mcbrides did as well.

I don’t think there’s one right or wrong answer on how she should have handled it. Real life interests and concerns tend to make this a moot point from an academic discussion standpoint. Everyone agrees the thiefs are scumbags for stealing and even bigger scumbags for making her seem racist for it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Who is Don Lemon?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Gay black dude on cnn

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Who is Don Lemon?

Think Nas but smart

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:14 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
@zeph

Don Lemon recently stated that white men were the most dangerous terrorist group in America and wondered out loud what we we were doing about white men.

He faced no repercussions for this and, in fact, doubled down the following night.

I'm having a bit of a hard time seeing how this is much of a response to my post. Lemon cited empirical evidence for his position regarding the number of attacks carried out by white right-wing individuals versus other groups.

Beyond that, a single individual can hardly be used to damn an entire group. You yourself have argued against such a standard when it comes people who may not be Nazis marching with Nazis for instance, so merely citing Lemon's continued employment simply will not do for decrying the media as a whole.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I don't think a "double standard" requires intent to discriminate, it simply exists or it doesn't. The disparate coverage IS the evidence.
The disparate coverage (still not substantiated BTW) could instead be a result of consumer demand for such stories rather than media preference or a result of such stories simply occurring more than other kinds of stories.

Quote:
But if you want evidence of racial bias from media members, I think the prevalence of phrases like "white men need too..." or "white people should..." speaks for itself. You know it exists and is quite prevalent even from mainstream media outlets.
Ah, the old "people on Twitter are saying" sort of evidence. Truly the most credible kind there is.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Who is Don Lemon?


Don Tiny's grumpy cousin.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:24 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I agree with that. I also see Sam’s side of it and think he made several valid points and mcbrides did as well.

I don’t think there’s one right or wrong answer on how she should have handled it. Real life interests and concerns tend to make this a moot point from an academic discussion standpoint. Everyone agrees the thiefs are scumbags for stealing and even bigger scumbags for making her seem racist for it.


Real life interests and concerns are exactly why the discussion isn't moot. Look how many people said don't worry about Chipotle they'll be fine call corporate in this thread. There was a call for perceived double standard and people getting worked up about this. It's a discussion, that's all. It's about right and wrong, and if we can't agree that this manager wasn't fucked over by everybody and there was a right and wrong then there isn't much hope moving forward.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I agree with that. I also see Sam’s side of it and think he made several valid points and mcbrides did as well.

I don’t think there’s one right or wrong answer on how she should have handled it. Real life interests and concerns tend to make this a moot point from an academic discussion standpoint. Everyone agrees the thiefs are scumbags for stealing and even bigger scumbags for making her seem racist for it.


Real life interests and concerns are exactly why the discussion isn't moot. Look how many people said don't worry about Chipotle they'll be fine call corporate in this thread. There was a call for perceived double standard and people getting worked up about this. It's a discussion, that's all. It's about right and wrong, and if we can't agree that this manager wasn't fucked over by everybody and there was a right and wrong then there isn't much hope moving forward.

I think everyone agreed she was fucked over. So there’s hope.

The only disagreement came in whether she should have made the food but not handed it over until payment was received (a pretty customary practice for any who have visited Chipotle) or initially demanded payment because she knew they were thiefs.

And then some ancillary disagreements on media and race that have been done to death over hundreds of threads on here when everyone already knows how everyone else feels on the topics.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:32 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Who is Don Lemon?

Think Nas but smart

Very nasty!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:33 pm 
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Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Who is Don Lemon?

Think Nas but smart

Very nasty!

Yup. You're as smart as Lemon. Other than I can see it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:34 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I agree with that. I also see Sam’s side of it and think he made several valid points and mcbrides did as well.

I don’t think there’s one right or wrong answer on how she should have handled it. Real life interests and concerns tend to make this a moot point from an academic discussion standpoint. Everyone agrees the thiefs are scumbags for stealing and even bigger scumbags for making her seem racist for it.


Real life interests and concerns are exactly why the discussion isn't moot. Look how many people said don't worry about Chipotle they'll be fine call corporate in this thread. There was a call for perceived double standard and people getting worked up about this. It's a discussion, that's all. It's about right and wrong, and if we can't agree that this manager wasn't fucked over by everybody and there was a right and wrong then there isn't much hope moving forward.

When sacks of shit steal from a corporation it doesn’t matter. It’ll all be absorbed in higher prices for the paying customers. It only stands to Reason. It’s not really much different than the way MANY want our various levels of government to be ran. It’s all a fucking scam.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I agree with that. I also see Sam’s side of it and think he made several valid points and mcbrides did as well.

I don’t think there’s one right or wrong answer on how she should have handled it. Real life interests and concerns tend to make this a moot point from an academic discussion standpoint. Everyone agrees the thiefs are scumbags for stealing and even bigger scumbags for making her seem racist for it.


Real life interests and concerns are exactly why the discussion isn't moot. Look how many people said don't worry about Chipotle they'll be fine call corporate in this thread. There was a call for perceived double standard and people getting worked up about this. It's a discussion, that's all. It's about right and wrong, and if we can't agree that this manager wasn't fucked over by everybody and there was a right and wrong then there isn't much hope moving forward.

When sacks of shit steal from a corporation it doesn’t matter. It’ll all be absorbed in higher prices for the paying customers. It only stands to Reason. It’s not really much different than the way MANY want our various levels of government to be ran. It’s all a fucking scam.

Our government IS being run that way and the vast majority of people like and prefer it that way, just as long as their side is in power.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:36 pm 
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Why make the food? Why waste? Why add to the waste? Why couldn't they have paid like she asked? She wasn't rude neither was the rest of the staff. She did the right thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:37 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Who is Don Lemon?

Think Nas but smart

Nas has 35 kids. Unless Lemon has figured out how to knock up
his boyfriend, I think the comparison ends there.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Why make the food? Why waste? Why add to the waste? Why couldn't they have paid like she asked? She wasn't rude neither was the rest of the staff. She did the right thing.

Sam answered all your questions already. I'm not going to rehash them.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
When sacks of shit steal from a corporation it doesn’t matter. It’ll all be absorbed in higher prices for the paying customers. It only stands to Reason. It’s not really much different than the way MANY want our various levels of government to be ran. It’s all a fucking scam.


None of it is right.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Who is Don Lemon?

Think Nas but smart

Very Nas-ty!


.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:45 pm 
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The guys were scum for not paying initially. It was equally fucked up that they attempted to make it a racial issue. Its guys like this that hinder and hamper the fight against racism.

They trivialize the issue by making things that aren't ostensibly racist seem racist. They are the ultimate purveyors of victimhood. There is a segment of the population that will always buy what they're selling and they know it.

I will always argue that racism is more pervasive ib this country than MANY are willing to admit but labeling things racist that aren't can in many cases be almost as egregious.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:47 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
The guys were scum for not paying initially. It was equally fucked up that they attempted to make it a racial issue. Its guys like this that hinder and hamper the fight against racism.

They trivialize the issue by making things that aren't ostensibly racist racist. They are the ultimate purveyors of victimhood. There is a segment of the population that will always buy what they're selling.

I will always argue that racism is more pervasive ib this country than MANY are willing to admit but labeling things racist that aren't can in many cases be almost as egregious.

Drop the mic...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:54 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Sam answered all your questions already. I'm not going to rehash them.


He was right in saying they put her in an untenable position. She did the right thing. He's also very fortunate his business is set up the way it is to safeguard himself from this. Some people and workers don't have that luxury


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:55 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I agree with that. I also see Sam’s side of it and think he made several valid points and mcbrides did as well.

I don’t think there’s one right or wrong answer on how she should have handled it. Real life interests and concerns tend to make this a moot point from an academic discussion standpoint. Everyone agrees the thiefs are scumbags for stealing and even bigger scumbags for making her seem racist for it.


Real life interests and concerns are exactly why the discussion isn't moot. Look how many people said don't worry about Chipotle they'll be fine call corporate in this thread. There was a call for perceived double standard and people getting worked up about this. It's a discussion, that's all. It's about right and wrong, and if we can't agree that this manager wasn't fucked over by everybody and there was a right and wrong then there isn't much hope moving forward.

I think everyone agreed she was fucked over. So there’s hope.

The only disagreement came in whether she should have made the food but not handed it over until payment was received (a pretty customary practice for any who have visited Chipotle) or initially demanded payment because she knew they were thiefs.

And then some ancillary disagreements on media and race that have been done to death over hundreds of threads on here when everyone already knows how everyone else feels on the topics.



If race wasn't involved it would not be a story. If race weren't involved there wouldn't have been a thread created either.

This wasn't about a group of guys refusing to pay at Chipotle. This was about a group of Black Guys refusing to pay at Chipotle and complaining about it being racist. Without the racial aspect it becomes a non story.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:01 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Sam answered all your questions already. I'm not going to rehash them.


He was right in saying they put her in an untenable position. She did the right thing. He's also very fortunate his business is set up the way it is to safeguard himself from this. Some people and workers don't have that luxury

Everyone involved in this discussion is more fortunate from a job perspective than a fast food worker. Let's not twist things.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:08 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Everyone involved in this discussion is more fortunate from a job perspective than a fast food worker. Let's not twist things.


I'm in the quasi service industry and don't make $10/hr so I'm not more fortunate on an individual level. I'm not twisting anything. She did the right thing from a corporate stand point and moral stand point and people were ready to get her fired and trash her on social media. That's not right.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:16 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Everyone involved in this discussion is more fortunate from a job perspective than a fast food worker. Let's not twist things.


I'm in the quasi service industry and don't make $10/hr so I'm not more fortunate on an individual level. I'm not twisting anything. She did the right thing from a corporate stand point and moral stand point and people were ready to get her fired and trash her on social media. That's not right.

But the narrative...don’t forget the narrative. Until jumping on the narrative make you look like a fucking idiot. Then move on to the next outrage and hope that one fits the narrative. Rinse and repeat.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:19 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Everyone involved in this discussion is more fortunate from a job perspective than a fast food worker. Let's not twist things.


I'm in the quasi service industry and don't make $10/hr so I'm not more fortunate on an individual level. I'm not twisting anything. She did the right thing from a corporate stand point and moral stand point and people were ready to get her fired and trash her on social media. That's not right.

Everyone agrees that's not right. You seem to be arguing a point nobody is arguing against.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:20 am 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Everyone involved in this discussion is more fortunate from a job perspective than a fast food worker. Let's not twist things.


I'm in the quasi service industry and don't make $10/hr so I'm not more fortunate on an individual level. I'm not twisting anything. She did the right thing from a corporate stand point and moral stand point and people were ready to get her fired and trash her on social media. That's not right.

But the narrative...don’t forget the narrative. Until jumping on the narrative make you look like a fucking idiot. Then move on to the next outrage and hope that one fits the narrative. Rinse and repeat.

This doesn't make any sense. I've come to expect better from you Red.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:22 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Mr. Reason wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Everyone involved in this discussion is more fortunate from a job perspective than a fast food worker. Let's not twist things.


I'm in the quasi service industry and don't make $10/hr so I'm not more fortunate on an individual level. I'm not twisting anything. She did the right thing from a corporate stand point and moral stand point and people were ready to get her fired and trash her on social media. That's not right.

But the narrative...don’t forget the narrative. Until jumping on the narrative make you look like a fucking idiot. Then move on to the next outrage and hope that one fits the narrative. Rinse and repeat.

This doesn't make any sense. I've come to expect better from you Red.

Eric, it makes perfect sense, if you’re paying any attention, you dumbass.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:25 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Everyone agrees that's not right. You seem to be arguing a point nobody is arguing against.


She was suppose to call corporate according to a few posters. There are people that have been denying or questioning whether or not this was racially motivated. She didn't make the right decision according to several people, she should have made the food, thrown it out and let corporate deal with it. And that may have ended in a ding on her anyway.


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