I have NEVER bought a foreign made car,as I believe that it is essential to our economy to support American made products. But if they go manufacture vehicles overseas, I will reconsider my position. As long as Ford is still making the SUV's here, I feel I have an acceptable option. With Chevy and GMC produced products off the table, the pickings are getting slim though. It is getting damn ridiculous what new cars cost these days.

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Go Cubs!!!!

We owned one Honda and it sucked. It felt like I was driving a go kart.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I was the same way. But the foreigners have started building more cars here, while the domestics have moved production overseas. My last GMC was a Yukon Denali that was built in the now closed Janesville plant. My last Pontiac was a Grand Prix, and Pontiac is defunct. You just run out of acceptable options, and I was sick of comprising on quality and performance.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

You don't buy Hyundai? Or Toyota?

Stock market is tanking, the job gains are being wiped out. Trumpkins won't be able to ride the "Economy President" angle much longer.

The stock market was in a bubble condition especially the FAANG stocks. There is a divergence between stock market performance and the underlying, real economy. The real economy is fine despite headwinds from slower global growth and all the trade noise. The jobs market is fine albeit overheated. There are certainly concerns mainly with the housing market cooling. But we are posting above trend line GDP growth.

Rising interest rates are going to slow the whole machine down, but it is the right action. It was abnormally low rates that caused bubble market conditions.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I love how certain elements here use an economic down turn to dunk on the president.


Sad.

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There is no economic downturn in the U.S. The market is down from bubble highs. The primary drivers of the market bubble were the corporate tax cut, which boosted earnings significantly for domestic taxpayers and sustained low interest, which forced people to plow into the market. One of those major chips is off the table, and the other has already been priced in.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

"Right before Christmas! Cruel!" - Joe and Jane Sixpack

"Right after mid terms. Smart!" - the Duck of Death

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost

should'have done it ON Christmas???

-JERRY

This has been a long time coming. There's an oversupply of new cars by all manufacturers, not just GM. Eventually you have to slow down production. Slowing down production eventually requires plants to close as it's not cost effective to operate plants at partial utilization.

Has Trump's economic policy helped prevent this? No.
Did Trump make empty promises to the GM areas that are impacted? Yes.
Was this a problem prior to Trump? Yes.
Was it a problem prior to Obama? Yes.

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I think I read that Honda (or Toyota? I can't remembah) will make more cars here than GM

Anybody want a fucking 2019 Cadillac coupe? No, didn't think so

I would if I didn't want an SUV instead.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

My son got a 2018 Malibu after a drunk hit and totalled his Ford last year. I'm still surprised at how high quality both cars are/were. Oddly I don't think that I've heard him even consider a foreign car in his price range.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

And excluding fleet trucks, the top sold vehicles in the first half of 2018 were, in order: the Nissan Rogue, Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, Toyota Camry, Honda Civic, Chevrolet Equinox, Toyota Corolla, Ford Escape and Honda Accord.

So more specifically, people want non-American crossovers above anything else. Two import sedans outsold the top American crossover.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Just leased a new Dodge Challenger. My previous car was a Dodge Challenger. I love these cars. Look great and have great performance packages.

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

Did you at least get a reacharound from the sales manager?

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Speaking of challengers, I saw that Crooked Hillary and Slick Willie are doing a speaking tour in Canada to venues full of empty seats. Maybe if she spent time in Michigan and Wisconsin, rather then travel overseas, she might have been able to make something of herself in 2016!

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I'm not sure what your point is here.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

GM cannot figure out how to make cars people want. Period. They are always outclassed in quality and undercut in price.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

A CTS is nice if you want big. ATS is also supposed to be good.

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Elections have consequences.

That isn't what those numbers say. I believe Ford and GM still sell more in terms of dollars than anyone else in America. What you did was provide a list of individual cars that sell the best, most of which are cheaper so the numbers are logically higher.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The big problem for the American auto makers in competing in the "cheap" division of the car industry is that Toyota and Honda are pretty good at it but also a lot of Americans are proud of the fact that they won't even consider an American car because of some perception of a lack of quality that just doesn't exist any more. The foreign companies did come in and beat them pretty good on that in the 80s and 90s but it's not like they sit around with no clue on how to make a quality car at that price. You can see it in this thread with things like "Who wants a Malibu?" when it's actually a pretty good car. IMU, with at least two car purchases, never even considered an American car even after his first one didn't meet his expectations, and the second car he bought he had to put aftermarket parts on it anyways.

So, not only do they have to fight against the perception that shouldn't matter now and a pretty good product for a cheaper car from two companies that are also pretty good at it. They don't have this problem with SUV's or bigger cars and they do ok in luxury brands too. They also can't put that much into the cheaper cars because the margins are much lower so it is pretty much a losing battle.

Now, there is nothing wrong with being brand loyal to a foreign company. Free market and all of that. It just shouldn't be a shock to you that the car brands you won't even consider in America have to adjust their business accordingly to try and compete with the car brands you consider to be acceptable. That's kind of the funny thing about IMU saying "They are always outclassed in quality and undercut in price.". Well, what do you think this restructuring is attempting to do? It's to hopefully improve quality but it certainly is an attempt to lower the price of production. Just like elections, buying your Honda has consequences too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Brick is Drago and IMU is Creed in this thread.

Talk about laying the pine

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You have not addressed the end result of US tax dollars going toward saving an essentially overseas manufacturer. Why did GM receive the bailout? So GM could survive Americans would not lose their jobs.

Americans lost their jobs.

And AGAIN, Honda, Toyota and Nissan sold more SUVs as well.

For luxury cars. Cadillac barely competes and sells in very poor numbers compared to the competitors: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/07/sm ... -sales-in/

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

If that were the case, the government would not have leaned on them to close divisions- Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer, and for them to slim down their dealer networks. They went into the restructuring with 47 plants and came out with 34. The bailout was in fact meant to have GM survive and save some jobs. But under your logic, GM should never close an American plant or layoff a worker simply because it took a bailout a decade ago.

They had 91,000 employees pre-bailout and 68,500 post bailout. So actually the bailout was a forced reduction in plants and employees, which like most restructurings (and this one now), is so that the operation is stronger for the long term.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Fucking 2019 Buick Regal? Want that shit?

GM is a bloated corporation. Bailing them out, as now shown, was a mistake. Time is always a truth teller. They didn't learn a goddam thing. So now they cry about tariffs. THIS, after a bailout. The balls on these people.

I just find it sad that a decade later, we're still having this same discussion because of a perverse sense of fiduciary responsibility and a really foolish campaign promise which no right thinking person took seriously.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I also don't think you understand the numbers there. The net loss for the government in terms of the actual sale of the stock they had was about $12 billion. That's bad. However, GM(not including Chrysler, or Ford which would have needed the bailout money if GM or Chrysler had folded) alone has over $5 billion in labor costs a year. The government ultimately took in a lot more than $12 billion from the Big 3 through things like payroll taxes. They also avoided the crisis that would have happened with workers if true bankruptcy had taken place in terms of the loss of retirement/health benefits and other things. The most simple way to say it is that no matter how you do the math, the government would have lost FAR more than $12 billion had they simply allowed the American auto industry to disappear without working on a deal to give them a lifeline. Now we are here ten years later and all three are fairly stable though just like most other companies that never got bailouts they are making cuts even in a time of economic prosperity.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!