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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:18 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
When you look at some of the problems facing modern society: obesity, addiction, loneliness, mental health etc. They can all be directly related to the loss of meaning in life. We are evolved primates meant to struggle for food in nature. Living like we do now is unnatural, and it takes meaning away for many people. As jobs become automated what happens to the majority? Will they be content just existing with something like a basic income provided for them?

People can find meaning outside drudgery.



You are responding to the seemingly underlying premise of WfR's post that religion is necessary, yes?

No, I didn't even pick up on that. I thought he was arguing against universal basic income on the basis that people just getting money without doing bullshit jobs to get that money would lead to the downfall of society. I don't agree with that. Obesity and loneliness exist, but I don't think it's because we're just not struggling enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:23 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
When you look at some of the problems facing modern society: obesity, addiction, loneliness, mental health etc. They can all be directly related to the loss of meaning in life. We are evolved primates meant to struggle for food in nature. Living like we do now is unnatural, and it takes meaning away for many people. As jobs become automated what happens to the majority? Will they be content just existing with something like a basic income provided for them?

People can find meaning outside drudgery.


One’s drudgery is another’s purpose. One must imagine Sysophus happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:24 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
When you look at some of the problems facing modern society: obesity, addiction, loneliness, mental health etc. They can all be directly related to the loss of meaning in life. We are evolved primates meant to struggle for food in nature. Living like we do now is unnatural, and it takes meaning away for many people. As jobs become automated what happens to the majority? Will they be content just existing with something like a basic income provided for them?

People can find meaning outside drudgery.



You are responding to the seemingly underlying premise of WfR's post that religion is necessary, yes?

No, I didn't even pick up on that. I thought he was arguing against universal basic income on the basis that people just getting money without doing bullshit jobs to get that money would lead to the downfall of society. I don't agree with that. Obesity and loneliness exist, but I don't think it's because we're just not struggling enough.


I think you're mistaken about that. Man needs purpose. Work is a necessary component of a man's well being. If basic income becomes reality I suspect the opioid crisis will just get worse.

The fact that man is cognizant that he will die one day causes him to seek greater meaning, i.e. religion. As our society grows more secular it isn't necessarily becoming more rational. Instead of having faith in crap like a church people are turning their faith toward crap like intersectionality.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:26 am 
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Whether one believes in science, religion or some amalgam, salaried positions didn't exist for a long time. :lol: I think humanity made it through.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:29 am 
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IMU wrote:
Whether one believes in science, religion or some amalgam, salaried positions didn't exist for a long time. :lol: I think humanity made it through.


:lol: Man didn't sit on a couch waiting for his government check to arrive.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:33 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:36 am 
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This seems relevant. I don't agree with all of it, but it's an interesting take.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/andrew-sullivan-americas-new-religions.html


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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:37 am 
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It would be nice if the suggested basic income could be tied to some sort of activity. Not as a punishment but as a enhancement for that person as well as society. Let people chase things they truly joy but until now really can't make a living doing it. The proverbial dream job utilizing the basket weaving in classic civilization degree for instance.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:55 am 
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We had 100 percent employment when the job was killing Germans or Japanese. It would be interesting to see what we could accomplish if we had similar commitment to something else. A Manhattan Project to cure cancer. A national effort to end homelessness or something like that.

I've also thought that everyone not going to college should be required to join the military or do two years of some sort of internal Peace Core type activity. College students could do something similar upon graduation.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:07 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Whether one believes in science, religion or some amalgam, salaried positions didn't exist for a long time. :lol: I think humanity made it through.


:lol: Man didn't sit on a couch waiting for his government check to arrive.

Instead, everyone contributed and benefited equally. Your worst nightmare. Hell, my worst nightmare too. I'd be tormented if I couldn't see guys like Darko in the rear view.

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Last edited by IMU on Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:07 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
As jobs become automated what happens to the majority? Will they be content just existing with something like a basic income provided for them?


Yes.



I don't think so. Man needs purpose.
This may be a generational thing but I don't think we view work as a purpose of life like you guys may have. It's just something you have to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
As jobs become automated what happens to the majority? Will they be content just existing with something like a basic income provided for them?


Yes.



I don't think so. Man needs purpose.
This may be a generational thing but I don't think we view work as a purpose of life like you guys may have. It's just something you have to do.



I don't think a "view" has anything to do with it. Human nature doesn't change. People are exactly the same as they always have been. The idea that man is always progressing is preposterous. And if you have a vast number of people who receive money and have to seek out some other purpose, you're going to see a society in absolute collapse. I don't know what the answer is, but the time to address the problem is probably right now before Jeff Bezos owns all the robots and has all the money.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:12 am 
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IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
IMU wrote:
Whether one believes in science, religion or some amalgam, salaried positions didn't exist for a long time. :lol: I think humanity made it through.


:lol: Man didn't sit on a couch waiting for his government check to arrive.

Instead, everyone contributed and benefited equally. Your worst nightmare. Hell, my worst nightmare too. I'd be tormented if I couldn't see guys like Darko in the rear view.

:lol: it was an effort but you fell short.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:19 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think a "view" has anything to do with it. Human nature doesn't change. People are exactly the same as they always have been. The idea that man is always progressing is preposterous. And if you have a vast number of people who receive money and have to seek out some other purpose, you're going to see a society in absolute collapse. I don't know what the answer is, but the time to address the problem is probably right now before Jeff Bezos owns all the robots and has all the money.
The concept of working until you die is a fairly recent phenomenon. Retirement back then was having enough kids to get to be adults and do the work for you though.

I also don't think jobs will disappear as a concept. They just won't be so mind numbingly boring as many are.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:23 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think a "view" has anything to do with it. Human nature doesn't change. People are exactly the same as they always have been. The idea that man is always progressing is preposterous. And if you have a vast number of people who receive money and have to seek out some other purpose, you're going to see a society in absolute collapse. I don't know what the answer is, but the time to address the problem is probably right now before Jeff Bezos owns all the robots and has all the money.
The concept of working until you die is a fairly recent phenomenon. Retirement back then was having enough kids to get to be adults and do the work for you though.

I also don't think jobs will disappear as a concept. They just won't be so mind numbingly boring as many are.


For a good percentage of the population a mind numbingly boring job might be the only one they could be effective at. What to do with people who are told you are needed. Here is something so you can eat.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:33 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
We had 100 percent employment when the job was killing Germans or Japanese. It would be interesting to see what we could accomplish if we had similar commitment to something else. A Manhattan Project to cure cancer. A national effort to end homelessness or something like that.

I've also thought that everyone not going to college should be required to join the military or do two years of some sort of internal Peace Core type activity. College students could do something similar upon graduation.


This sounds awfully red of you.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Freelance Mortician wrote:
This seems relevant. I don't agree with all of it, but it's an interesting take.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/andrew-sullivan-americas-new-religions.html


Quote:
People who have lost religion and are coasting along on materialism find they have few interior resources to keep going when crisis hits. They have no place of refuge, no spiritual safe space from which to gain perspective, no God to turn to. Many have responded to the collapse of meaning in dark times by simply and logically numbing themselves to death, extinguishing existential pain through ever-stronger painkillers that ultimately kill the pain of life itself.


This is essentially lifted right out of the AA Big Book. There's nothing new under the sun.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:44 pm 
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When a crisis hits me I will take refuge at Costco and the short lines on Sunday mornings.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
When a crisis hits me I will take refuge at Costco and the short lines on Sunday mornings.



Drink up that shitty Kirkland vodka because advertising has convinced you it's the same as Grey Goose!

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
When a crisis hits me I will take refuge at Costco and the short lines on Sunday mornings.



Drink up that shitty Kirkland vodka because advertising has convinced you it's the same as Grey Goose!

Sounds like advertising has convinced you it's not :D

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think a "view" has anything to do with it. Human nature doesn't change. People are exactly the same as they always have been. The idea that man is always progressing is preposterous. And if you have a vast number of people who receive money and have to seek out some other purpose, you're going to see a society in absolute collapse. I don't know what the answer is, but the time to address the problem is probably right now before Jeff Bezos owns all the robots and has all the money.



I'm a believer in needing a purpose and it should be work or work like. When my kids were little they were a lot of work. When my youngest started school I obviously had a lot of free time. It only took about 2-3 years but I got tired of having little purpose. I was probably a little depressed and sort of irritated with the lack of direction. I really enjoy my little job and I'm looking ahead on what's next. I might go back to school and get a different degree. I could also see why it would be easy to fall into drug use and booze when there is nothing to do. Satan finds some mischief still for idle hands to do. I also see it in people that I know that have retired. After a few years of doing what they want they look for projects, part time jobs, volunteer stuff etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:30 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think a "view" has anything to do with it. Human nature doesn't change. People are exactly the same as they always have been. The idea that man is always progressing is preposterous. And if you have a vast number of people who receive money and have to seek out some other purpose, you're going to see a society in absolute collapse. I don't know what the answer is, but the time to address the problem is probably right now before Jeff Bezos owns all the robots and has all the money.
The concept of working until you die is a fairly recent phenomenon. Retirement back then was having enough kids to get to be adults and do the work for you though.

I also don't think jobs will disappear as a concept. They just won't be so mind numbingly boring as many are.


For a good percentage of the population a mind numbingly boring job might be the only one they could be effective at. What to do with people who are told you are needed. Here is something so you can eat.



I don't think a society comprised primarily of flâneurs is going to be very successful. A few of us are okay.

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 Post subject: Re: Disposable Living
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:24 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
There was a shit ton of drinking mixed in. No wonder they feel like shit.


She's a 26 year old single woman with no children working a dead end job in "journalism".

This woman is peak post modern feminism. She will die alone surrounded by cats. Probably has like five abortions in her medical file.

She drinks to kill that feeling deep down that she is already over the hill as a partner for any man of worth and she missed her calling to raise a family.

She represents the evolutionary dead end of being a THOT.

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