Y'all realize that you can criticize character development and still praise a show, right? There are many elements that go into producing a drama series. Character development is crucial. You can have interesting characters and a bad show and at times you can have a good show and uninteresting characters. For example the Dorne characters in GOT largely suck: they weren't well developed and the acting was generally bad. Still a great show even when they were featured.

Yes, FF, relapses happen of course. I'm not trying to be tone deaf about that. I just didn't buy it. He worked his ass off to get to the top of his profession. He gets to the top, relatively. Then he fell back to old habits just to further reinforce the character arc the show writers created for him. That he started out crooked and can't seem to escape that past. He fully embraces that about him instead of trying to get it out of his system. The condescension, interference, disrespect, etc from Chuck exacerbates that
I get that. I just don't buy it.
I would have thought an origin story about him being a hard luck lawyer would have been better. Keep the parts about him being disrespected and under appreciated. Keep the early scam history parts. Keep Chuck being an asshole. Don't make him make it like they did. Keep him at the public attorney level making 300 or whatever per case. Keep him as someone trying to do it the right way but falling back on quick scams from time to time to make ends meet. Have him enter the criminal underworld once he realizes the futility of trying to do it the right way. After he realizes the serious dough at play in the drug world and how he's uniquely qualified to fill an underserved need in the criminal world.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Think I’m gonna watch the first two again soon. They really were incredibly good.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Another thing I appreciate about BCS over BB is that it’s a slow burn type of show that puts extra emphasis on the details. Everything is painstakingly explained and displayed, laid out for the audience -which slows the show down quite a bit. Plots take more time to marinate and simmer, but that adds to the gratification when you finally hit the conclusions.


BB was an escalation. The early seasons were pretty good about the details.. but every season sped up more and more in an attempt to heighten the anxiety and make the risk and consequences of actions hit harder. But doing that sacrificed some details here and there.. I mean, a machine gun in the trunk? Fucking really.. really? There were some major stumbles as the seasons went on in BB. Just lapses in details that were not satisfying when conclusions were revealed. They felt forced and generic and like the writers were like.. ‘how the fuck do we write our way out of this? I GOT IT.. hear me out.. let’s say, Walt puts a matching gun in his trunk and..’


Meh

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

If you are going to argue that Jessie is a weak main character then there is no way I can take your opinion as worthwhile on anything tv related.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Ralph going hard in the paint

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I love a good villain.. and you’ll be hard pressed to see one as effective as Varga imo. That said, season 3 is a bit out there, almost ‘Twin Peaks’-ish at times. So I can see it not being as well received as the 1st two seasons. But at the same time, it’s not like it’s ‘True Detective’ season 2 bad lol..


..speaking of TD, they’ve been showing previews a bit now. I’m intrigued with what I’ve seen. They need to get back to the same dark atmosphere as the 1st season.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

Many critics were shaky on him as well. A lot of people I’ve seen on other boards in likewise discussions also mention him as a week link too. That’s why I brought it up, this isn’t the only place I have these types of discussions or read about this stuff. But if you want to disregard everything else I typed over one opinion, then that’s on you. I don’t care.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

Just watched Pine Barrens episode. I thought it was GREAT! Way better than the fly episode of BB.

Really enjoying the series!

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

That's one of the best Sopranos episodes of fall....it also marks the sharp decline in quality

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Question....loved seeing Ralphie get his...couldnt stand him...why did they bury his head and such in a hole and not sink it in the water with the rest of him?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Don't want the body to be easily identifiable. Head and hands go elsewhere.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Its like RFDC learned NOTHING from The Greek and Vondos.

Also, according to the book that just came out, a lot of the writing tried to put a humorous or even slapstick quality to counter some of the violence. That fight featured a frying pan and bug spray. Tony saying "she was a beautiful creature" could also be taken a number of ways.

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Hmm ok. They havent done that with anyone else tho, have they?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

One problem here, Fly is the worst BB episode and Pine Barrens is the best Sopranos episode. Not only did the whole season leading up to pine Barrens suck..they came back from pine Barrens and never mentioned it, as if it never happened. That's when I gave up on that show and knew it sucked. The writing was brutal

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Bad writing, you find a leg bone and dna it, you don't need a skull.

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Yes, they mention chopping guys up a few other times. They just didn't always show it.

Absurd opinion.

What exactly did you want them to say about what happened in the woods after that? Why would they ever speak of it?

-spoiler alert for RFDC-

I also think that the Russian never being heard from again added a sense of mystery to later episodes. Not everything had to be wrapped up nicely as people expected.

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Right, if anything it should be lauded for the realism. Everything in life doesnt get a climax. (insert wife joke)

312's Sopranos thoughts are so awful that for YEARS I thought he was doing a bit and was just committed.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You think that Russian gangster couldn't put that together? His best friend goes missing the same day he's squaring up with Chris n Paulie. How about a hiker finding his corpse in the spring? They never even mentioned Russian anything after that.

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The writing was lousy, the acting was very good for the most part (Carmela, Meadow, Tony, Junior, Chris)

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One of the issues the writers faced, even on a show as successful as The Sopranos, was not knowing when it would end. Each season had to be renewed and negotiated, along with all the actors. They didn't necessarily have the ability to plan the arcs out years in advance.

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You're right about that, I'm sure that is challenging. Gilligan n Simon had to do it too and excelled, Chase failed.

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Universal remote

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Except the show that should be applauded for its "realism" also portrayed, and sometimes relied on, elements of the supernatural to further the story.

What are you referring to?

If you're talking about dream sequences I don't think that undercuts the realism.

What was supernatural? The coma purgatory thing? The fact the Russian dude should have been dead as hell and escaped?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I believe Chase has stated Tony's experience as Kevin Finnerty was more than a dream, but then there's also Big Pussy's ghost in the mirror at Livia's wake, Paulie's experience with both the psychic and the Virgin Mary (as well as his own experience with "Ghost [Big] Pussy"), and Ralphie being referenced numerous times as an incarnation of the Devil.

As for the dreams, no not all of them are supernatural, and ALL of them are almost pitch-perfect renditions of how we tend to dream. However, Tony does get the premonition to kill his best friend and Capo because of a fever-induced dream. Now you could argue that the dream was meant to showcase how impulsive and paranoid someone in Tony's position could be, and that's pretty good, but keep in mind Tony had vetted the rat allegations against Pussy in the first season, and was confident that Jimmy was the rat Makazian had confused with Pussy. Given that, I'd say chalking up Tony's decision in the dream state to paranoia or "background thinking" is a bridge too far.