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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:27 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
pittmike wrote:
To me the strike zone should be larger but more importantly it HAS to be more consistent. I don't care one way or another about electronic means but this Ump to Ump to Ump stuff is done for me.



The electronic strikezone is coming. But it's like the self-driving car. It's not quite here just yet. I think one of the problems is that every batter is not the same size.

The worst take in baseball is the idea that shifts should be made illegal because they are "unfair" to left-handed sluggers, which of course, they are. But the left-handed hitter has so many advantages that complaints about one disadvantage ring somewhat hollow.


I don't have many problems with baseball and not really shifts as they can be played against. Obviously minimum three batters is not going to be the answer but it gets things discussed and it sounds like people are at least thinking outside the "batters" box. :P

Solve the issue of every ump having their own zone somehow speed up the relief pitching aspect and it will be fine. There is a core time frame to a game. There is only so much you can do to get that average time to 2.5 hours.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:39 am 
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I think it's dumb to set a limit on the number of batters you can face. Just have a clock on the speed in which the transition takes place like basketball does with timeouts/foul outs. First time they take too much time in a game, you get a warning. Second time they take too much time, it's an intentional walk to the batter.

Also, as pointed out, don't let batters leave the batters box more than once in an at bat.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:39 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
pittmike wrote:
To me the strike zone should be larger but more importantly it HAS to be more consistent. I don't care one way or another about electronic means but this Ump to Ump to Ump stuff is done for me.



The electronic strikezone is coming. But it's like the self-driving car. It's not quite here just yet. I think one of the problems is that every batter is not the same size.

The worst take in baseball is the idea that shifts should be made illegal because they are "unfair" to left-handed sluggers, which of course, they are. But the left-handed hitter has so many advantages that complaints about one disadvantage ring somewhat hollow.

Agree with that. Lefties have built-in advantages and if it is really a problem, they can adjust their game.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:01 pm 
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The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available. That isn't an issue. The question is can it be responsive enough to not delay the game.

The relief pitcher issue needs to be adjusted. I think limiting the number of pitching changes per game is probably the answer there. Max 3 changes. Teams get an additional change every 2 extra innings.

Limiting how far a player can shift prior to the ball being thrown is another rule possibility. 2B can't be past midway point between 1st and 2nd. SS can't cross over the bag. 3B can't move past halfway point between 3rd and 2nd. Something like that.

Something to make the game a bit more interesting would be adding extra things to strike out and walks. If a batter strikes out 3 times, they must be substituted. If a pitcher walks 4 batters, he must be substituted. Something like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Limiting how far a player can shift prior to the ball being thrown is another rule possibility. 2B can't be past midway point between 1st and 2nd. SS can't cross over the bag. 3B can't move past halfway point between 3rd and 2nd. Something like that.

Something to make the game a bit more interesting would be adding extra things to strike out and walks. If a batter strikes out 3 times, they must be substituted. If a pitcher walks 4 batters, he must be substituted. Something like that.
Or I could sleep in the park! You could knock these walls down, make it an eight room luxury suite.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:29 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
The relief pitcher issue needs to be adjusted. I think limiting the number of pitching changes per game is probably the answer there. Max 3 changes. Teams get an additional change every 2 extra innings.

Limiting how far a player can shift prior to the ball being thrown is another rule possibility. 2B can't be past midway point between 1st and 2nd. SS can't cross over the bag. 3B can't move past halfway point between 3rd and 2nd. Something like that.

Something to make the game a bit more interesting would be adding extra things to strike out and walks. If a batter strikes out 3 times, they must be substituted. If a pitcher walks 4 batters, he must be substituted. Something like that.

0% chance of any of that happening.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:47 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I’d love to see the high strike. Unfortunately it will increase the already high strikeout total. Hopefully it would lead to hitters actually trying to put the ball in play earlier in the count.

I hate The DH. I hate reliever carousel, but the three hitter minimum is dumb. Pitch clock is a must. No warm up pitches too.


Agreed, with all but the DH commentary. There imo, is rarely anything sillier than pitchers pretending at the plate.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:53 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.


A player's strikezone doesn't really change from one at-bat to another. So, its no hard to lock in a strikezone for a player and program accordingly.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:02 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.


A player's strikezone doesn't really change from one at-bat to another. So, its no hard to lock in a strikezone for a player and program accordingly.



True, and I think that's the goal. But from what I've read about it, it's not quite to a point where they think it can be used at the big league level. I know they've tried it in the minors and the players didn't hate it. One thing for sure, it takes away a guy to scream at on a borderline call.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.


A player's strikezone doesn't really change from one at-bat to another. So, its no hard to lock in a strikezone for a player and program accordingly.



True, and I think that's the goal. But from what I've read about it, it's not quite to a point where they think it can be used at the big league level. I know they've tried it in the minors and the players didn't hate it. One thing for sure, it takes away a guy to scream at on a borderline call.



I think the bigger problem is tracking the ball with all the changes in arm angles from pitchers. The actual strikezone would be the easy part.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I’d love to see the high strike. Unfortunately it will increase the already high strikeout total. Hopefully it would lead to hitters actually trying to put the ball in play earlier in the count.

I hate The DH. I hate reliever carousel, but the three hitter minimum is dumb. Pitch clock is a must. No warm up pitches too.


Agreed, with all but the DH commentary. There imo, is rarely anything sillier than pitchers pretending at the plate.

I agree, but I like the strategy of having to try to dodge that near-automatic out.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:36 pm 
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inneresting fun fact. the pitcher slot only gets about 280 ABs per year in the NL.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
inneresting fun fact. the pitcher slot only gets about 280 ABs per year in the NL.


Not true.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
inneresting fun fact. the pitcher slot only gets about 280 ABs per year in the NL.


Not true.

I think what he is trying to say is true, but the wording is weird.

At bats by pitchers are probably right around that number. Maybe a little higher. Id guess 1.8 AB's per game.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
inneresting fun fact. the pitcher slot only gets about 280 ABs per year in the NL.


Not true.
Sure seems like 280-290 At Bats on average could be right on the mark.

ABs by Cubs pitchers
2018 294
2017 311
2016 355

ABs by Reds pitchers
2018 307
2017 288

ABs by Giants pitchers
2018 282
2017 288

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:47 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
inneresting fun fact. the pitcher slot only gets about 280 ABs per year in the NL.


Not true.
Sure seems like 280-290 At Bats on average could be right on the mark.

ABs by Cubs pitchers
2018 294
2017 311
2016 355

ABs by Reds pitchers
2018 307
2017 288

ABs by Giants pitchers
2018 282
2017 288


The pitcher's slot bats every time around the order. Whether a pitcher is in it or not.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:49 pm 
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More if you're the Cubs and Joe has the pitcher in the 8 hole.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.


A player's strikezone doesn't really change from one at-bat to another. So, its no hard to lock in a strikezone for a player and program accordingly.



True, and I think that's the goal. But from what I've read about it, it's not quite to a point where they think it can be used at the big league level. I know they've tried it in the minors and the players didn't hate it. One thing for sure, it takes away a guy to scream at on a borderline call.



I think the bigger problem is tracking the ball with all the changes in arm angles from pitchers. The actual strikezone would be the easy part.


Maybe so.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:00 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.


A player's strikezone doesn't really change from one at-bat to another. So, its no hard to lock in a strikezone for a player and program accordingly.



True, and I think that's the goal. But from what I've read about it, it's not quite to a point where they think it can be used at the big league level. I know they've tried it in the minors and the players didn't hate it. One thing for sure, it takes away a guy to scream at on a borderline call.



I think the bigger problem is tracking the ball with all the changes in arm angles from pitchers. The actual strikezone would be the easy part.


Maybe so.


Shouldn't matter if they dial batter's height in the system. Then they have a camera/sensor in each corner of the plate facing straight up. That should yield a box of strike zone.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:02 pm 
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I think that more of the problem has to do with roster and stadium manipulation and less with the actual gameplay.

Roster: Teams have gotten smarter about locating their minor league ballclubs, and taking full advantage of the 40 man roster and options. The 10-day DL has been a mixed blessing.

Stadium: Fans want home runs, fans paying to go to a game want to be closer to the field. So we have shorter fences and smaller foul territories. At Wrigley, we have more rows of premium seats, so now the first row is closer to the catcher. Meanwhile, players are now training all year around with the best (non-steroid) technologies. Launch angle wouldn't be as much of a thing if ballparks were routinely 350 down the lines, 385 in the alleys, and 405 to straight-away center.

It's too late to fix the stadiums. This isn't golf where you see the PGA going to longer and longer courses.

But for the rosters, abolish the 40-man roster and the idea of options, and go to a 30 man roster, 10 pitchers and 15 hitters available for each game. But if you need to call up somebody to the 30-man they have to be purchased and somebody has to be outrighted or DFAed.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:25 pm 
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The relief pitching situation is a problem over and above what it does to pace of play. The games gets much less interesting the moment the starters come out and we get relief pitcher after relief pitcher. For that reason, I would be all for either a minimum batter requirement, or a cap on the number of pitchers used per game.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:27 pm 
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To sort of combine these two things, go to a 30 man roster, but only have 25 available on gameday. This eliminates the Bereavement & Paternity leave. This would also be useful in double headers as the SP in game 1 would not be available in game 2 so you would not need the 26th man either.

Then you could easily bring back the 15 day DL, and keep the 7 day DL for use of concussion protocol only.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Warren Newson wrote:
The relief pitching situation is a problem over and above what it does to pace of play. The games gets much less interesting the moment the starters come out and we get relief pitcher after relief pitcher. For that reason, I would be all for either a minimum batter requirement, or a cap on the number of pitchers used per game.

That ship has sailed.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:34 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Maybe so.


Shouldn't matter if they dial batter's height in the system. Then they have a camera/sensor in each corner of the plate facing straight up. That should yield a box of strike zone.


I would also bet MLB isn't as aggressive about solving the automated balls and strikes. They have an umpires union to deal with. If they wanted to really get this implemented, there are far more sophisticated technologies in place.

I'm all for anything that reduces pitching changes, but i'd rather it be done by changing rules on roster sizes and call-ups. It needs to be where a team gets punished / challenged on the field for over-using bullpen arms.

There is nothing wrong with the shift. Learn to hit the opposite way and that solves the shift.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:38 pm 
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I am fairly sure it won't take too long for the umps to get on board. Eventually they will see the history in umpire strikes and lockouts.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:38 pm 
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I am fairly sure it won't take too long for the umps to get on board. Eventually they will see the history in umpire strikes and lockouts.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.


That is correct and when players hit from a crouch it further complicates the complexity of a computer to define a given hitter's strike zone. Then you have the movement of the ball itself. Theoretically if a ball touches any part of the defined strike zone it should be called a strike and the action of pitches like sliders, change-ups, curve balls, etc. really are hard to call with any definity.

I guess that they could make a sort of hybrid umpire and computer combination in which the computer calls the corner part and the umpire rules on the vertical parts?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
The technology for the automatic strike-zone is available.


It's really not though. Eric Byrnes has been pitching the state of the art version and they are aware it isn't perfected. It's not just as simple as the PITCH f/x they use for TV broadcasts. Sure, you can use a computer to create a consistent strikezone. The problem is the strikezone isn't consistent. A guy who is 5'8" doesn't have the same strikezone as a guy who is 6'5". Like I said, it's not really perfected yet.


A player's strikezone doesn't really change from one at-bat to another. So, its no hard to lock in a strikezone for a player and program accordingly.


That is a good point. However, how would one adjust to a batter moving around in the batter's box? Most umpires that I have dealt with will make the call at the point in which the ball cuts the plane at the point where the batter is standing. So if a batter is at the front edge of the plate, they will make the call where the ball reaches the front edge of the plate and if the batter is in the back of the plate, they will make the elevation call at that point. It gets interesting when you are talking about breaking pitches.

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