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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:59 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Has anyone said they expect Madrigal to be a superstar?

I know MANY have said that if he isn't more than a journeyman infielder, then that's another indictment on the White Sox front office.

But I haven't seen MANY people saying they expect him to be great.

Do Cub fans get the benefit of the doubt or people taking things in context? Absolutely not.

Reader said he hopes he's Paul Molitor. So now, that is what Sox fans believe he is. That's how it works.

Just like Schwarber = Babe Ruth.
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Terry's Peeps
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Has anyone said they expect Madrigal to be a superstar?

I know MANY have said that if he isn't more than a journeyman infielder, then that's another indictment on the White Sox front office.

But I haven't seen MANY people saying they expect him to be great.

Do Cub fans get the benefit of the doubt or people taking things in context? Absolutely not.

Reader said he hopes he's Paul Molitor. So now, that is what Sox fans believe he is. That's how it works.

Just like Schwarber = Babe Ruth.


I missed Reader's post.

That's fair.

Jerk.

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Rod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:07 am 
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Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I dont care about the Cubs.

If Madrigal is a journeyman infielder, combined with the other early first round failures during this round of "rebuilding", then it's a massive failure and everyone needs to be fired.

Or killed.


Now you're fantasizing like a Cub fan. Just because you decide to throw away seasons doesn't mean you suddenly draft Hall of Famers.

Look at the great Theo Epstein first rounders. Bryant, maybe Ellsbury, and a bunch of guys who aren't as good as Theriot.


WTF you smoking JORR? Theo drafted, Dustin Pedroia, Clay Buchholz, Jed Lowrie, Jonathan Papelbon , Anthony Rizzo , Will Middlebrooks, Josh Reddick, (Drafted but didn't sign)Brandon Belt, Pedro Alvarez, Yasmani Grandal.

:lol: That's a fucking all star team when you add Bryant to the list.


Now you're changing the conversation. This isn't about Epstein's skill in drafting. It's about how difficult it is to find the right guys in the draft. Theo drafted Bryce Brentz in the first round. Ryan Theriot had a better career than than many of those guys you listed above. Will Middlebooks is a career .225 hitter for God's sake.

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GoldenJet
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:07 am 
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Almora hits well enough against righties and lefties and fields well enough, that he should be a plug and play, set him and forget him guy. Right now the Cubs have too many outfielders...which shouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I'd like to see Happ groomed into a super sub like Zobrist, who is playing out the string at this point. Happ could rotate through the lineup, spelling Almora, Schwarber, Heyward, Baez, Rizzo. He could start 4 out of every 5 games easily. Happ would have to cut way down on the Ks though.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Sox talk.

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Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:10 am 
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Juiced wrote:
Theo has not missed on drafting position players.
Also Juiced; Theo drafted Bucholz and Papelbon!

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Regular Reader
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:15 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Has anyone said they expect Madrigal to be a superstar?

I know MANY have said that if he isn't more than a journeyman infielder, then that's another indictment on the White Sox front office.

But I haven't seen MANY people saying they expect him to be great.

Do Cub fans get the benefit of the doubt or people taking things in context? Absolutely not.

Reader said he hopes he's Paul Molitor. So now, that is what Sox fans believe he is. That's how it works.

Just like Schwarber = Babe Ruth.


Saying that I hope his closer a comp to Molitor than Theriot is what I said, not putting anyone in the company of all timers like Cubbie fans routinely do.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:22 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Has anyone said they expect Madrigal to be a superstar?

I know MANY have said that if he isn't more than a journeyman infielder, then that's another indictment on the White Sox front office.

But I haven't seen MANY people saying they expect him to be great.

Do Cub fans get the benefit of the doubt or people taking things in context? Absolutely not.

Reader said he hopes he's Paul Molitor. So now, that is what Sox fans believe he is. That's how it works.

Just like Schwarber = Babe Ruth.


Saying that I hope his closer a comp to Molitor than Theriot is what I said, not putting anyone in the company of all timers like Cubbie fans routinely do.

Sorry, Reader. I dont make the rules.

Exactly ZERO people here made a Schwarber-Ruth comparison.

And no, its not special to Cub fans. All fanbases do it. Including the Sox as evidenced by this thread where they are crying over the prospect of getting a good player (Theriot)

It makes Sox fans feel better to think they are realistic, but they arent. Fandom is not realistic or rational. Not sure why Sox fans think it is.
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RFDC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:23 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Baez is better than Theriot on defense alone considering the importance of the position.


That's a fair take, but like I said to RFDC, they're different types of players. I consider Theriot a better offensive player. Of course you can argue that Baez's power makes him superior. I might argue it depends what your team needs. I think if you look at the Cubs' offensive woes, you might come to the conclusion that they could use a couple more Theriots and a couple less Baezes. And that's one of the reasons Zobrist plays more than Almora.

How can Theriot be a better offensive player than Baez when the only thing he does better is OBP??

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Juiced
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:30 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I dont care about the Cubs.

If Madrigal is a journeyman infielder, combined with the other early first round failures during this round of "rebuilding", then it's a massive failure and everyone needs to be fired.

Or killed.


Now you're fantasizing like a Cub fan. Just because you decide to throw away seasons doesn't mean you suddenly draft Hall of Famers.

Look at the great Theo Epstein first rounders. Bryant, maybe Ellsbury, and a bunch of guys who aren't as good as Theriot.


WTF you smoking JORR? Theo drafted, Dustin Pedroia, Clay Buchholz, Jed Lowrie, Jonathan Papelbon , Anthony Rizzo , Will Middlebrooks, Josh Reddick, (Drafted but didn't sign)Brandon Belt, Pedro Alvarez, Yasmani Grandal.

:lol: That's a fucking all star team when you add Bryant to the list.


Now you're changing the conversation. This isn't about Epstein's skill in drafting. It's about how difficult it is to find the right guys in the draft. Theo drafted Bryce Brentz in the first round. Ryan Theriot had a better career than than many of those guys you listed above. Will Middlebooks is a career .225 hitter for God's sake.


I am not changing anything. You said, "Look at the great Theo Epstein first rounders. Bryant, maybe Ellsbury, and a bunch of guys who aren't as good as Theriot."

Middlebooks was included because of his wife. Image
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FavreFan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:32 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Way too many Sox fans falling into the Cub fan worshiping or worrying about prospects rut. Wait until all of these guys get 200 MLB ab's or maybe they won't. Until then yawn.


I dont think anyone has been worked up over the actual production of a prospect. But the conversation of hoping the 4th overall pick is a journeyman infielder is frightening.

Correct.

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FavreFan
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I'm not sure there has been a more overloved guy that Albert Almora playing in Chicago.



He's similar to Adam Engel but Cub fans think he's better than Adam Jones.

What is with all this Cub fan bashing in a thread where Sox fans are expecting a prospect who has never played to be a superstar/hall of famer?

Did Not Happen.

Lots of middle ground between superstar and Ryan Theriot :lol:

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rogers park bryan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Has anyone said they expect Madrigal to be a superstar?

I know MANY have said that if he isn't more than a journeyman infielder, then that's another indictment on the White Sox front office.

But I haven't seen MANY people saying they expect him to be great.

Do Cub fans get the benefit of the doubt or people taking things in context? Absolutely not.

Reader said he hopes he's Paul Molitor. So now, that is what Sox fans believe he is. That's how it works.

Just like Schwarber = Babe Ruth.


Saying that I hope his closer a comp to Molitor than Theriot is what I said, not putting anyone in the company of all timers like Cubbie fans routinely do.

Sorry, Reader. I dont make the rules.

Exactly ZERO people here made a Schwarber-Ruth comparison.

And no, its not special to Cub fans. All fanbases do it. Including the Sox as evidenced by this thread where they are crying over the prospect of getting a good player (Theriot)

It makes Sox fans feel better to think they are realistic, but they arent. Fandom is not realistic or rational. Not sure why Sox fans think it is.

Very debatable how "good" a career 6 WAR guy is.

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Rod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:38 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Baez is better than Theriot on defense alone considering the importance of the position.


That's a fair take, but like I said to RFDC, they're different types of players. I consider Theriot a better offensive player. Of course you can argue that Baez's power makes him superior. I might argue it depends what your team needs. I think if you look at the Cubs' offensive woes, you might come to the conclusion that they could use a couple more Theriots and a couple less Baezes. And that's one of the reasons Zobrist plays more than Almora.

How can Theriot be a better offensive player than Baez when the only thing he does better is OBP??


:lol: Getting on base is pretty important.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:40 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Has anyone said they expect Madrigal to be a superstar?

I know MANY have said that if he isn't more than a journeyman infielder, then that's another indictment on the White Sox front office.

But I haven't seen MANY people saying they expect him to be great.

Do Cub fans get the benefit of the doubt or people taking things in context? Absolutely not.

Reader said he hopes he's Paul Molitor. So now, that is what Sox fans believe he is. That's how it works.

Just like Schwarber = Babe Ruth.


Saying that I hope his closer a comp to Molitor than Theriot is what I said, not putting anyone in the company of all timers like Cubbie fans routinely do.

Sorry, Reader. I dont make the rules.

Exactly ZERO people here made a Schwarber-Ruth comparison.

And no, its not special to Cub fans. All fanbases do it. Including the Sox as evidenced by this thread where they are crying over the prospect of getting a good player (Theriot)

It makes Sox fans feel better to think they are realistic, but they arent. Fandom is not realistic or rational. Not sure why Sox fans think it is.

Very debatable how "good" a career 6 WAR guy is.

About 6 more than half of every first round draft class.

More unrealistic expectations from Sox fans.
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312player
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:45 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Baez is better than Theriot on defense alone considering the importance of the position.


That's a fair take, but like I said to RFDC, they're different types of players. I consider Theriot a better offensive player. Of course you can argue that Baez's power makes him superior. I might argue it depends what your team needs. I think if you look at the Cubs' offensive woes, you might come to the conclusion that they could use a couple more Theriots and a couple less Baezes. And that's one of the reasons Zobrist plays more than Almora.

How can Theriot be a better offensive player than Baez when the only thing he does better is OBP??


:lol: Getting on base is pretty important.



Then you should walk back your Tim Anderson > Almora comp .

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312player
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Almora is better, with way more upside than Theriot ever had. Who are you guys crappin'?



Yeah, Theriot at Almoras age currently was playing at LSU.


What does that mean? Are you expecting huge improvement from Almora?



It means Almora is young, he's not a finished product.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:53 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Has anyone said they expect Madrigal to be a superstar?

I know MANY have said that if he isn't more than a journeyman infielder, then that's another indictment on the White Sox front office.

But I haven't seen MANY people saying they expect him to be great.

Do Cub fans get the benefit of the doubt or people taking things in context? Absolutely not.

Reader said he hopes he's Paul Molitor. So now, that is what Sox fans believe he is. That's how it works.

Just like Schwarber = Babe Ruth.


Saying that I hope his closer a comp to Molitor than Theriot is what I said, not putting anyone in the company of all timers like Cubbie fans routinely do.

Sorry, Reader. I dont make the rules.

Exactly ZERO people here made a Schwarber-Ruth comparison.

And no, its not special to Cub fans. All fanbases do it. Including the Sox as evidenced by this thread where they are crying over the prospect of getting a good player (Theriot)

It makes Sox fans feel better to think they are realistic, but they arent. Fandom is not realistic or rational. Not sure why Sox fans think it is.

Very debatable how "good" a career 6 WAR guy is.

About 6 more than half of every first round draft class.

More unrealistic expectations from Sox fans.

And less than the average 4th overall pick in the past 30 years. My expectations are realistic, yours seem to be off.

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RFDC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:58 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Baez is better than Theriot on defense alone considering the importance of the position.


That's a fair take, but like I said to RFDC, they're different types of players. I consider Theriot a better offensive player. Of course you can argue that Baez's power makes him superior. I might argue it depends what your team needs. I think if you look at the Cubs' offensive woes, you might come to the conclusion that they could use a couple more Theriots and a couple less Baezes. And that's one of the reasons Zobrist plays more than Almora.

How can Theriot be a better offensive player than Baez when the only thing he does better is OBP??


:lol: Getting on base is pretty important.


Sure it is, but that alone makes him a better offensive player? That is crazy.

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312player
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Jorr is all over the place in this thread, he doesn't even believe the crapola he's typing.

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Rod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:28 am 
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312player wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Baez is better than Theriot on defense alone considering the importance of the position.


That's a fair take, but like I said to RFDC, they're different types of players. I consider Theriot a better offensive player. Of course you can argue that Baez's power makes him superior. I might argue it depends what your team needs. I think if you look at the Cubs' offensive woes, you might come to the conclusion that they could use a couple more Theriots and a couple less Baezes. And that's one of the reasons Zobrist plays more than Almora.

How can Theriot be a better offensive player than Baez when the only thing he does better is OBP??


:lol: Getting on base is pretty important.



Then you should walk back your Tim Anderson > Almora comp .


Almora is a backup being used only in matchups selected with care by the best manager in the business. Tough to compare to a guy who plays every game and faces everyone.

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Rod
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:30 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Baez is better than Theriot on defense alone considering the importance of the position.


That's a fair take, but like I said to RFDC, they're different types of players. I consider Theriot a better offensive player. Of course you can argue that Baez's power makes him superior. I might argue it depends what your team needs. I think if you look at the Cubs' offensive woes, you might come to the conclusion that they could use a couple more Theriots and a couple less Baezes. And that's one of the reasons Zobrist plays more than Almora.

How can Theriot be a better offensive player than Baez when the only thing he does better is OBP??


:lol: Getting on base is pretty important.


Sure it is, but that alone makes him a better offensive player? That is crazy.


Theriot's career is in the books. Wait until you see what Baez's numbers look like after he has the shitty years at the end. He's likely to end up a .250 career hitter with a sub-300 OBP.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:31 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
And less than the average 4th overall pick in the past 30 years. My expectations are realistic, yours seem to be off.

Do you have a source for that?

I dont believe that is true. Here are 20 between 94-2013. Not sure why it ends at 2013.

I may be missing one, but I believe its just those 5 guys that have 6+ career WAR


4th Overall MLB Draft Picks
Year Player Pos. Drafted From Drafted By
2013 Kohl Stewart RHP St. Pius X HS (TX) Minnesota Twins
2012 Kevin Gausman RHP LSU Baltimore Orioles
2011 Dylan Bundy RHP Owasso HS (OK) Baltimore Orioles
2010 Christian Colon SS Cal-State Fullerton Kansas City Royals
2009 Jorge Sanchez C Boston College Pittsburgh Pirates
2008 Brian Matusz LHP University of San Diego Baltimore Orioles
2007 Daniel Moskos LHP Clemson Pittsburgh Pirates
2006 Brad Lincoln RHP Houston Pittsburgh Pirates
2005 Ryan Zimmerman 3B Virginia Washington Nationals
2004 Jeffrey Niemann RHP Rice U (TX) Tampa Bay Devil Rays
2003 Timothy Stauffer RHP U Richmond (VA) San Diego Padres
2002 Adam Loewen P Fraser Valley Christian HS (BC) Baltimore Orioles
2001 Gavin Floyd P Mt. St. Joseph HS (MD) Philadelphia Phillies
2000 Mike Stodolka P Centennial HS (CAÂ ) Kansas City Royals
1999 Corey Myers SS Desert Vista,HS (AZ) Arizona Diamondbacks
1998 Jeff Austin P Stanford University Kansas City Royals
1997 Jason Grilli P Seton Hall University San Francisco Giants
1996 Billy Koch P Clemson University Toronto Blue Jays
1995 Kerry Wood P Grand Prairie HS (TX) Chicago Cubs
1994 Antone Williamson 3B Arizona State University Milwaukee
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312player
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I believe Epstein chewed Maddon out on not giving Almora more at bats. Joe's favorite player is Happ( who knows why) he's nothing like BZ, it's actually the polar opposite of Zobrist at the plate. You'll see Almora get 500 at bats this year.

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312player wrote:
You'll see Almora get 500 at bats this year.
Barring an injury to Heyward or another Cubs OF that keeps them out for 4+ weeks, I will take the under.

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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Almora is like a Cub prospect from a byegone era. There were feature stories about him in the paper well before he was even close to making MLB and he gained an unearned, beloved status. Even the defense is terribly overstated but I think that's just a product of the fans needing something to retain their affection for him. The unnecessary dives are ridiculous.

He wasn't even all that impressive in the minors.

He looks like a platoon starter or 4th OF.

He makes spectacular plays in the outfield (your diving statement is ridiculous) and played a prominent role in the most important inning in franchise history. It makes sense that fans like him.


.


They liked him before he arrived. His role in the world series is a little less than that of Geoff Blum.

Pay closer attention to his diving. Almora loves to make the simple seem dramatic.

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good dolphin wrote:

Pay closer attention to his diving. Almora loves to make the simple seem dramatic.


Yep. I almost expect him to grow an afro so he can make his cap fly off like Jose Cardenal.

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You jealous Sox bums, you make him out to be some buster at the plate who plays center like Jim Edmonds. He's a great outfielder who will save Manny runs for Manny years.

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Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:38 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
They liked him before he arrived. His role in the world series is a little less than that of Geoff Blum.

Dont you love Geoff Blum?
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good dolphin
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:07 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
They liked him before he arrived. His role in the world series is a little less than that of Geoff Blum.

Dont you love Geoff Blum?


No. I don't care about him

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GoldenJet
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:08 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
They liked him before he arrived. His role in the world series is a little less than that of Geoff Blum.

Dont you love Geoff Blum?


Great character in Jurassic Park

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