... Now that Flip is available, would you rather have Flip Saunders or Doug Collins? Presuming both want to coach the Bulls, which style would you prefer?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3423956

Collins and it's not that close.

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If Doug Collins somehow backs out of the Bulls' job and stays with Turner Sports, I've got to believe that an assistant without NBA head coaching experience will end up with the job. While GM John Paxson wanted to talk with Boston Celtics' assistant Tom Thibodeau before the Collins news broke late last week, I've got to think that Utah Jazz assistant Jeff Hornacek or possibly Sacramento Kings' assistant Chuck Person might end up getting the job instead. The Tim Allen-looking Flip Saunders might follow Avery Johnson and toil with one of the NBA's broadcast partners for a year unless he goes to a team close to a championship, which eliminates the Bulls...I know the Phoenix Suns are looking for a head coach, although Shaquille O'Neal recommended Lakers' assistant Brian Shaw in an interview.

Flip is just not a good coach. He;s a freaking cheerleader.

I loved Flip Saunders during timeouts. He would talk and draw up plays and the whole Piston team didn't really pay attention. He got paid a lot of money to stand there and look busy.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Agreed. Flip's easily the most overrated coach in the league, and not alot of people think hes all that good.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

x2

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B&B are saying that Flip Saunders would unquestionably be a better hire than Collins.

Bernstein is arguing that Saunders played a crucial role in the development of Billups, Prince and Garnett.

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Wow. I had alot of respect for Bernstein's basketball acumen before that statement. All of those players were well established and didnt necessarily improve under Flip. During the ECF Chris Webber basically said noone on the Pistons listened to Flip at halftime.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Flip Saunders put on a suit and looked busy for three years in Detroit. That team ran itself and it's why they struggled to achieve the success they should have with all that talent.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, Bernsie really sounded dumb to me with the statements I referenced above. Saunders didn't have anything to do with Prince or Billups becoming good as far as I can tell. I thought Billups' development was most frequently attributed to Larry Brown, although Saunders did coach him earlier in Minnesota. He also had nothing to do with Prince's development. While he did coach Garnett for ten years in Minnesota, I've never heard anybody say that Garnett is a product of Saunders's coaching acumen. Further, as both you and Rick have said, Saunders has proven himself to be a nonentity in the playoffs.

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This is easy-- Collins by a mile!

No thanks to Flip.

He only coached them one year each, and Prince didnt do a whole lot his rookie year. I think Brown had the most inlfuence on the Pistons core group, all of them. Now I dont think it matters a whole lot who they bring it, as long as that core is together they coach themselves.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No, he didnt. He coached them both from 2002-2003. He was Detroit's coach in 2001-2002, but they didnt have Billups cuz he was in Minnesota still, and he didnt have Prince cuz he was at Kentucky.

I credit Brown for getting Billups to play a better team game and transition out of the shoot first PG mentality. He averaged less than 4 apg with Carlisle that one season. Prince's rookie season wasnt that good either.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I know. We are talking about Prince and Billups and their development in regards to Flip Saunders. You saying you think Rick Carlisle had more to do with their development then Flip or Brown would seem to indicate you were talking about those two players, since those were the two specific players mentioned in this thread. Im saying I dont think Rick Carlisle has any more to do with their development as players than any other coach would, and only coached each player for one season.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I agree. Collins and Carlisle are both Point A to Point B coaches. I think the Pistons needed a coach to get them to Point C. Brown, iirc, got them to play alot better team basketball while not alienating them. Carlisle laid the defensive foundation of the core.

We'll see how Carlisle does in Dallas.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No he didnt. Larry Bird did. The season after he left Detroit they won the NBA Finals, beating the Pacers in the ECF on the way, I think. The next season the Pacers had a chance to compete for the Finals and were probably one of the four best teams in the league but their whole season got derailed by the Malace at the Palace.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul