We aren't talking about who the best freshman ever was. We are talking about who the best player was. It's valid to compare them when they were at their best.

So now Robinson is WAY behind Zion?

You do understand how flawed those statistics are too correct?

Here is an example.
Big Dog .523 efg%
Zion .710 efg%
Mystery Player 3 .685 efg%

Big Dog .566TS%
Zion .705TS%
Mystery Player 3 .712 TS%

Mystery Player 3 must be better than Big Dog too and pretty close to Zion. It turns out it is Steve Scheffler. That isn't just a cherry picked example. The leaders in efg% and ts% are not the best players in college basketball. I mean, Tacko Fall compares with those numbers too.

You are making a strawman argument. Zion is great. He's one of the best I've ever seen. That doesn't change the fact that Big Dog was better in the year he won player of the year.

Duke does have an all star team. Take Zion off the team. They are still as good or better than any other team in college basketball. Are you honestly arguing that Duke isn't filled with talent?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rick just officially lost the argument with the Steve Scheffler and Tacko point


Hint: shakes already stipulated the 22 ppg. Gotta try again for another mystery player my man

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Are you already stoned this morning?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Duke was 3-3 without Zion when you count the UNC game he got hurt in the first 15 seconds .

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I don't know why, but

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Hatchet, what point do you think you are making here?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You know why

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I have no issue with marijuana cigarettes. It was just funny coming from Hatchetman.

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Rick made a very cogent point about the subjectivity/idiocy of the stat in question by citing obviously inferior players.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

someone do Brick a favor and teach him about usage and how that relates to stats. Maybe then he won't embarrass himself by trying to compare high efficient low usage players to guys like Zion and Big Dog.





now you don't understand what strawman means. Let me ask you, who's the strawman here., the guy who brought teammates into the discussion or the guy who is pointing out how that doesn't matter?

You're the ONLY person in this entire thread to try and belittle a player because he played with other good players. It's completely irrelevant to the discussion of who the best college players of all time were.

You're also the only person in this entire thread to try and claim that we should only use a specific year from a player as opposed to their entire career.

I really don't think you understand what strawman means cause that's all you've been doing in this thread.

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how awesome is this, I'm totally kicking Brick's ass in an argument!


Best day ever.

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He said 22 ppg at the end making a different point. I was simply pointing out the flaw of just using TS% and EFG% like he did.

If we are going to start also giving credit for ppg, well, 30.5 > 22.5.

However, how about this.

Big Dog .523efg%
Zion .710efg%
Mystery Player 4 .616 efg%

Big Dog .566TS%
Zion .705TS%
Mystery Player 4 .652 ts%

Mystery Player 4 averaged 27.6 over 4 years.


Now, this one is slightly different because it's more about how the player would be somewhere in between Big Dog and Zion. Mystery Player 4 is Doug McDermott.

Don't get me wrong. If Zion returned, he would probably have the best efg% in history(with Tacko Fall being second) but we can't just cherry pick that statistic and an arbitrary point minimum to make a case. To make it easier for you to understand imagine if the case was being made for DeAndre Jordan since he is the career NBA leader in ts% and efg%.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

and Brick's got this retard on his side.

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stop embarrassing yourself Brick.

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Is the Mystery Player Rick Mount?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So what is the criteria here? You cited ts% and efg%. Now, you seemingly have a usage rate qualifier. It isn't my fault that you keep on adding qualifiers.

So, how about you give me the statistics that matter, and then we can compare Big Dog, Zion, and other similar players to see if it makes sense. You can't act like you have some magic formula that proves your point without a doubt and then it makes a case that Doug McDermott was also a far better college player than Big Dog.

Are you serious? Teammates don't matter? Do you say the same thing for Ja Morant?

Belittle? Overdramatic much?

Once again, the question is the best college basketball player you've seen. It isn't who had the best total career. Robinson is considered one of the greats of all time because of his sophomore year. He averaged a double double and 30 points a game.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Was Doug McDermott a better college player than Big Dog?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Doug McDermott was pretty damn good.

Zion is overrated, though.

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Brick's argument style on this is very similar to this argument I often see....


Point: MJ is better than Lebron cause he has 6 rings and Lebron only has 3
Counter point: So does that mean Robert Horry is better than Lebron since he has more rings?



It's such a dumb and obviously flawed argument.

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Brick you already lost, you're done. Game over. Syanora. Arrieviderchi. Bon Voyage, Bon jour, Shalom mother fucker.



No need to continue responding to your strawman nonsense. It's over bitch ass. Still love ya, just excited that I kicked your ass so thoroughly in a message board argument.

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I have never seen Rick do this before.

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agreed, that's why it's embarrassing that he is doing it now.

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shakes is like the guy who was knocked out in the ring, everyone left the auditorium, woke up and figures he won.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

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I saw Walton play one of the tournament games on TV his final year, so I guess 1974. But I cannot remember any thoughts on him or any of the other players. I wanted UCLA to lose. They always won. That's all I remember.

You are the one that acted like you had some magic formula. When it says that Doug McDermott was also a better player than Big Dog you have to explain why the magic formula is still a good one.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Jesus Christ. And you think I’m stoned? Stop being an idiot and reread the last several posts for context.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Says the guy that literally won't even type the words Doug McDermott because of how it makes his argument look horrible.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Since shakes won't answer, what is the magic formula here? efg% + ts% + ????

It's especially interesting because efg% and ts% only primary difference is free throw shooting.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There is no magic formula. Stop being obtuse.

Look at every available data point on a player and come to a reasonable conclusion. That means SPG and BPG. It means EFG and TS%. It definitely means Usage rate. You liked to bring up how good Zion's teammates are. Not only did shakes debunk that, but the flip side to the coin is that having better players around you means you're asked to do less. If Zion was on Creighton when McDermott was I think it's very reasonable to project him to score more than 28 ppg considering his usage and efficiency on a much better team.

Also, like leash said, McDermott was a very good college player so that sorta undermines your point a bit.

But mainly the Steve Scheffler and Tacko examples were beyond ridiculous. Regardless of how little one knows about basketball stats, common sense should have come in to play before you submitted those examples.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul