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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:28 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
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So a person's employer cannot hold an employee accountable for their actions because of racism?

Nobody said that. Not sure why you would start this thread and then purposely decontexualize the conversation.


How am I decontextualizing the conversation?

Is that a serious question? Just look at the post of yours I just quoted vs the OP. The OP was about a very specific action and word. Your post I just quoted couldn’t be broader if you tried. It’s basically the textbook definition of decontextualizing a conversation.

Herb is ultimately saying that no one including MLB should be able to say anything to Anderson for saying that word.

This whole topic is because Anderson got suspended by his employer for using that word.

Not sure how you don't see that is a part of the conversation.

I did not decontextualize anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:30 pm 
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I’m not sure how you are objecting to me saying you did that. Either it’s about that action or word or it’s about “cannot hold an employee accountable for anything because racism”. Your latter post makes it sound like they would excuse any behavior. The OP and former statement keeps it at a very specific situation. Don’t know what else to tell you.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I’m not sure how you are objecting to me saying you did that. Either it’s about that action or word or it’s about “cannot hold an employee accountable for anything because racism”. Your latter post makes it sound like they would excuse any behavior. The OP and former statement keeps it at a very specific situation. Don’t know what else to tell you.

So Herbs statement has nothing to do with the action of MLB?

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:32 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It seems to me that the only one who is mad is Herb Lawrence. Either the word is taboo or it isn't. if it's a bad word for one player to use, it's a bad word for all players to use. .

From someone who allegedly understands the historical imbalance of power between white and black people in this country, that’s a very “racism is no longer a problem and the n word is no different from any other slur” point of view.



It's not that kind of viewpoint at all. Is there a reason a black person needs to use that word?

Also, I don't think the answer to solving racism is to create different societies that have different "rights".

It’s literally exactly that point of view. There’s no way, whatsoever, to square that with your opinion of black people cant be racist in this country. And your use of the word needs isn’t relevant, wants is the better word choice there, and yeah there’s probably a few reasons a black person would want to use that word, otherwise this wouldn’t be a topic of conversation currently.

Your last sentence just reinforces the “racism is no longer a problem” POV. You’re simply acting as if everything is a blank, equal slate. Sounds great in theory but that belies reality and history.



:lol: Now you're going to explain what I think to me. How does what I said have anything to do with a belief that "racism is no longer a problem"? And I didn't say Tim Anderson was a racist. I said he used a forbidden word.

Does Tim Anderson using that word help solve racism? Or does granting him the right to use that word when you can't make you feel better about the past? Bottom line- Tim Anderson can use whatever words he wants and so can everyone else regardless of their race. You don't have to like it.

I never said what you’re thinking. I think you know I think you’re a good guy. I’m telling you how your words are coming across in my opinion.

What you said leads to a “racism no longer exists” POV because you are acting like everything between white people and black people are completely even and there’s no imbalance there when you’ve gone out of your way in the past on here to suggest the exact opposite.


This would be a better in-person conversation because stuff gets lost or misconstrued easily when you're going back and forth in a forum like this. But I think the point is really exactly the opposite. Racism most certainly does still exist. The question is how to get past it. I guess we disagree on the value of having certain words that different people are and aren't allowed to use, especially when we are in pursuit of such a challenging goal. Do "rules" like that bring us together or further separate us?

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
From someone who allegedly understands the historical imbalance of power between white and black people in this country, that’s a very “racism is no longer a problem and the n word is no different from any other slur” point of view.



It's not that kind of viewpoint at all. Is there a reason a black person needs to use that word?

Also, I don't think the answer to solving racism is to create different societies that have different "rights".

It’s literally exactly that point of view. There’s no way, whatsoever, to square that with your opinion of black people cant be racist in this country. And your use of the word needs isn’t relevant, wants is the better word choice there, and yeah there’s probably a few reasons a black person would want to use that word, otherwise this wouldn’t be a topic of conversation currently.

Your last sentence just reinforces the “racism is no longer a problem” POV. You’re simply acting as if everything is a blank, equal slate. Sounds great in theory but that belies reality and history.



:lol: Now you're going to explain what I think to me. How does what I said have anything to do with a belief that "racism is no longer a problem"? And I didn't say Tim Anderson was a racist. I said he used a forbidden word.

Does Tim Anderson using that word help solve racism? Or does granting him the right to use that word when you can't make you feel better about the past? Bottom line- Tim Anderson can use whatever words he wants and so can everyone else regardless of their race. You don't have to like it.

I never said what you’re thinking. I think you know I think you’re a good guy. I’m telling you how your words are coming across in my opinion.

What you said leads to a “racism no longer exists” POV because you are acting like everything between white people and black people are completely even and there’s no imbalance there when you’ve gone out of your way in the past on here to suggest the exact opposite.


This would be a better in-person conversation because stuff gets lost or misconstrued easily when you're going back and forth in a forum like this. But I think the point is really exactly the opposite. Racism most certainly does still exist. The question is how to get past it. I guess we disagree on the value of having certain words that different people are and aren't allowed to use, especially when we are in pursuit of such a challenging goal. Do "rules" like that bring us together or further separate us?

My entire life I’ve known I can’t use that word and have black friends who have. I don’t consider us more separate because of it. It’s never occurred to me to get offended that they can use a word I can’t. So I don’t know how to answer that question except saying it’s not an issue from my perspective.

I agree on it being a better in person conversation. Let’s drag RR out of hiding and go have a drink sometime.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:40 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
My entire life I’ve known I can’t use that word and have black friends who have. I don’t consider us more separate because of it. It’s never occurred to me to get offended that they can use a word I can’t. So I don’t know how to answer that question except saying it’s not an issue from my perspective.

I agree on it being a better in person conversation. Let’s drag RR out of hiding and go have a drink sometime.


Yeah, that would be a good conversation. I know RR detests that word regardless of who is saying it. Ultimately though, I think it comes down to people's feelings. It's hard to say calling Herb Lawrence that word would really hurt him more than calling Julie fat. In fact, I'm willing to bet it wouldn't. He'd actually probably be more hurt by Jbills thinking he's an incel.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
My entire life I’ve known I can’t use that word and have black friends who have. I don’t consider us more separate because of it. It’s never occurred to me to get offended that they can use a word I can’t. So I don’t know how to answer that question except saying it’s not an issue from my perspective.

I agree on it being a better in person conversation. Let’s drag RR out of hiding and go have a drink sometime.


Yeah, that would be a good conversation. I know RR detests that word regardless of who is saying it. Ultimately though, I think it comes down to people's feelings. It's hard to say calling Herb Lawrence that word would really hurt him more than calling Julie fat. In fact, I'm willing to bet it wouldn't. He'd actually probably be more hurt by Jbills thinking he's an incel.

I’ll disagree with you on the Herb vs Julie point but we’re not them so no use debating it imo. Maybe we can invite them out for this drink :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:43 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
My entire life I’ve known I can’t use that word and have black friends who have. I don’t consider us more separate because of it. It’s never occurred to me to get offended that they can use a word I can’t. So I don’t know how to answer that question except saying it’s not an issue from my perspective.

I agree on it being a better in person conversation. Let’s drag RR out of hiding and go have a drink sometime.


Yeah, that would be a good conversation. I know RR detests that word regardless of who is saying it. Ultimately though, I think it comes down to people's feelings. It's hard to say calling Herb Lawrence that word would really hurt him more than calling Julie fat. In fact, I'm willing to bet it wouldn't. He'd actually probably be more hurt by Jbills thinking he's an incel.

I’ll disagree with you on the Herb vs Julie point but we’re not them so no use debating it imo. Maybe we can invite them out for this drink :lol:


Herb might come. Julie- no way.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:49 pm 
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Have the drink/conversation at an all you can eat buffet.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:49 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
My entire life I’ve known I can’t use that word and have black friends who have. I don’t consider us more separate because of it. It’s never occurred to me to get offended that they can use a word I can’t. So I don’t know how to answer that question except saying it’s not an issue from my perspective.

I agree on it being a better in person conversation. Let’s drag RR out of hiding and go have a drink sometime.


Yeah, that would be a good conversation. I know RR detests that word regardless of who is saying it. Ultimately though, I think it comes down to people's feelings. It's hard to say calling Herb Lawrence that word would really hurt him more than calling Julie fat. In fact, I'm willing to bet it wouldn't. He'd actually probably be more hurt by Jbills thinking he's an incel.

I’ll disagree with you on the Herb vs Julie point but we’re not them so no use debating it imo. Maybe we can invite them out for this drink :lol:


Herb might come. Julie- no way.

We could invite Spaulding to make her feel more comfortable. At least until the conversation begins.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:16 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Image

Herb continues to be right on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:19 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Have the drink/conversation at an all you can eat buffet.

I thought this was a shot at Julie and Herb but then I remembered you’re in Missouri and realized it was probably an earnest suggestion. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:21 pm 
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"sit this one out" is such a lazy internet reply. Right out of FF's playbook.


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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:22 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Image

Herb continues to be right on this one.

So Herb can go in and call someone that at work?

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:24 pm 
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BadRogue, chill with your CWB Chicago and Blue Lives Matter shit, bro.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:25 pm 
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spmack wrote:
BadRogue, chill with your CWB Chicago and Blue Lives Matter shit, bro.

Yeah I’ll get right on that champ

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:28 pm 
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spmack wrote:
BadRogue, chill with your CWB Chicago and Blue Lives Matter shit, bro.

#cantstopwontstop

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
spmack wrote:
BadRogue, chill with your CWB Chicago and Blue Lives Matter shit, bro.

Yeah I’ll get right on that champ

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Image

Herb continues to be right on this one.

So Herb can go in and call someone that at work?

Depends on the context. If he called another black employee “nigga” in friendly conversation you think he should be disciplined? I realize who I’m speaking to but that’s clearly ridiculous and you know this.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:46 pm 
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No one should call each other that word at all. But calling someone "motherfucker" gets you tossed from any game, doesn't it? If that does, then under similar guidelines for decorum, I would think the n-word would also get you tossed.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
No one should call each other that word at all. But calling someone "motherfucker" gets you tossed from any game, doesn't it? If that does, then under similar guidelines for decorum, I would think the n-word would also get you tossed.

If that’s true then of course you’re right. It probably hurts MLB in that regard though that they chose “racially charged” language to penalize him though. That KC pitcher is as white as I am.

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Last edited by FavreFan on Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 pm 
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I think if he were working at WVON it isn’t an issue . At the Score , he’s at the very least marched into HR for a talk .

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:55 pm 
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The suspension is stupid. It’s not as stupid as Herb Lawrence thinking that he can say certain words are magic without having any blowback. It’s our magic word, we get to say it!

People should think it’s stupid at the very least.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:02 pm 
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Either saying the word is wrong or it's not. Who is allowed to say it if it's not? What about someone who is 40% African-American? This is the problem with having different rules for different groups of people.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:05 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Either saying the word is wrong or it's not. Who is allowed to say it if it's not? What about someone who is 40% African-American? This is the problem with having different rules for different groups of people.

It’s really not a problem. This isn’t a discussion in the real world. Just on here where we “overthink” things. Black people can say the word and white people can also but it’s definitely going to come off very questionable if a white person does. And with good reason, given the history of the word.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:08 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Either saying the word is wrong or it's not. Who is allowed to say it if it's not? What about someone who is 40% African-American? This is the problem with having different rules for different groups of people.

It’s really not a problem. This isn’t a discussion in the real world. Just on here where we “overthink” things. Black people can say the word and white people can also but it’s definitely going to come off very questionable if a white person does. And with good reason, given the history of the word.


It’s not a problem in the “real world” is made up. It’s either bad or it isn’t. Quit playing these stupid games. You already won the “Woke” cuff links.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:11 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Either saying the word is wrong or it's not. Who is allowed to say it if it's not? What about someone who is 40% African-American? This is the problem with having different rules for different groups of people.

It’s really not a problem. This isn’t a discussion in the real world. Just on here where we “overthink” things. Black people can say the word and white people can also but it’s definitely going to come off very questionable if a white person does. And with good reason, given the history of the word.


It’s not a problem in the “real world” is made up. It’s either bad or it isn’t. Quit playing these stupid games. You already won the “Woke” cuff links.

I’m not trying to be “woke”. Stop with that dumb bullshit.

It’s not a problem in the real world or online. White people complaining that they can’t say the word also is a much bigger problem. Stop ignoring context and history and you won’t sound so ignorant.

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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Herb Lawrence
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:13 pm 
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