FavreFan wrote:
Agreed that LBJ can do more things than MJ on a basketball court. So could Shawn Marion. That’s a weak as fuck argument.
I love all around players as much as the next guy but the sport of basketball ultimately comes down to two simple things: scoring the basketball and preventing the other team from scoring. Jordan was significantly better than LeBron at both ends to the point where it’s not comparable. Stating LeBron is/was better than MJ is no different than saying Russell Westbrook is/was, and for the same ignorant reasons. It completely betrays reality.
It feels like you’re trying to argue an abstract concept while forgetting that most of us watched both of these guys play. There’s really not a debate to non stat nerds, nor should there be. Tim Duncan is the closest we’ve seen since Jordan in terms of dominant superstar.
Edit: also the notion that Jordan didn’t make his teammates better and wasn’t a playmaker is stupid as fuck. Please do better in the future veganfan. That statement is equivalent to me saying Mahomes doesn’t throw deep. Stop starfucking stats and just watch the games these guys played.
The argument is not simply that LBJ can do more. If it was then you could say Brook Lopez is better than both because in addition to scoring, passing, and rebounding Lopez can also block shots.
It's about overall dynamism and the threat you pose to the defense and opposing offense. There are only a handful of scoring threats that can hang with Jordan and LeBron isn't in that category. But it's not like he's far behind. I'd actually argue that LBJ is an underrated scoring threat because his other talents distract others from how effective a scorer he is. For career PPG LBJ is about 3 points behind MJ while taking seven less shots per game to reach that average. That's excellent. 30ppg for MJ compared to 27ppg for LBJ isn't as wide a gulf as some of you believe. And again LBJ is the more efficient of the two.
And saying LBJ is a better playmaker doesn't mean MJ didn't make plays. We're getting into deification/hero worship if we're unable to admit LBJ is a better playmaker. I mean he's a point forward - even the most die-hard MJ fan should be able to concede LBJ is a better playmaker, and that shouldn't diminish Jordan at all.
I have a feeling you're preemptively trying to undercut the stat argument (I haven't even brought it up) because you know where it's going (lbj has more defensive win shares, better defense +/-, etc.). Why is that?
FrankDrebin wrote:
Jordan made everyone that played with him better. I guarantee a 35 year old Jordan played more defense than LeBron did this year.
Check out Jordan's 88-89 season and see how great he could be as an all-around player. And that's against bigger, tougher players who beat the shit out of him.
There is a difference between setting players up strategically (LBJ) and hitting an open jump shooter because his defender double teamed you (MJ). MJ could do the former but that's LBJ's forte. The former is making your teammates better while the latter is just hitting the open man
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