I'm in season 2. Do they ever explain the reason for the name of the gang. The name begs the question because it is so perfectly unintimidatingly British.

I don't think you could smoke and drink that much on a daily basis and continue to operate. Who knew 3-4 quick glasses of whisky in the morning has no effect and cocaine isn't addictive.

I like Tom Hardy but every character he plays seems mentally disabled...kind of slow and emotionally absent with an unintelligible speech pattern.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Iirc it was the name of a real life gang. Has to do with the knives in their hats and them blinding people I think.

Good show through 3 seasons. Never caught season 4.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

One thing that bothers me is the writers giving the characters superhero abilities. Three tough guys taking on a room of other tough guys isn't going to result in the three winning. Just keep it real that they occasionally take a beating.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Keep watching.

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another thing, what's with all the doggy style? I mean, there are other ways.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Keep watching.

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I miss whole conversations because I cannot understand what these people are saying. It's like Sam Neil is the only one who understands you have to play to the American audience.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Turn on the closed captioning. Duh

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That is just as distracting.

This ain't Shakespeare. Every word isn't a pearl I need to collect.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Keep listening

I enjoy the show generally but does the family need to have a ridiculous, slow motion, superhero walk scene down a street in every single episode?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Interesting progression. You can see how they will get from where they are to the openly stated intended ending in two more seasons.

It will be an interesting history lesson as I'm not that familiar with the fascist movement in England pre WWII

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Final season dropped today (Netflix).

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It was ok. Show is just so damn slow and most of the characters are incomprehensible.

But Shelby remains smarter than everybody in plot-legitimate ways.

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I thought this was the end…but now hearing there will be movies?

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I think movie (singular). My understanding is they planned on 7 seasons but between COVID and Helen McCrory’s death they shortened the final story.

Spoilerish…my guess is that they somehow kill and curse the Kennedy character in the movie. And I suspect Tommy will be closely involved in stopping Hitler.

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oswald mosely lived a fascinating life. watched him interviewed by david frost from the 60s and another interview on english tv, not too long before he died. the frost interview: the war against fascism was only 20 years gone and lots of anger - mosely was heckled by the gallery. like enoch powell - proud englishman, a war veteran, suspicious of england's traditional 'allies' and wanted the british empire to go on following his path.

these guys had more wisdom in their dandruff than recent american politicians. statesmen, not politicians.

The Mosley speech at Shelby’s party S5 is nearly perfect…until he gets into the Jew hate. Then it goes to straight batshit.

Fascism’s biggest weakness is the need for a scapegoat and the consequences thereof. A nationalist approach would probably get 80% approval, but that nationalism can’t be grounded in some insane prejudice.

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Which is to say, Mosley the real man is not some cartoon character villain.

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i haven't watched the series, so i can't speak of history's timeline vs. the series.

mosley insisted he had 'no quarrel' with the jews until 1934-35. his claim was that jews in britain were pushing the u.k. to go to war with hitler's fledgling 3rd reich - because the jews were 'treated badly' in nazi germany. if mosley's claims were true about jewish pressure on 10 downing street, then, obviously, this had to form and begin in earnest - say, 1933-1934. that timeline seems legit. the more extreme hitler's nazis treated their jewish citizens, the more the jews in britain were willing to stand up to mosley and his fledgling fascists.

mosley brought up gladstone and disraeli, a jew himself...who opposed war with ottoman turkey because the armenians and other christians were 'having it bad', under the sultan's reign. the eastern question was a huge issue for the western great powers in the late 1800s and disraeli feared czarist russia eating up the remains of the ottoman empire: so, no help for the christians who were 'having a bad time' under ottoman rule. gladstone wanted war, disraeli opposed war and disraeli won out. mosley used this as a prime argument to keep the u.k. out of an early war with nazi germany. another argument was mosley's personal experiences fighting the hun in ww1.

mussolini was already an established fascist when mosley left conventional british politics. this was a few years prior to hitler...so, i see mussolini as his aspiration and inspiration, not, hitler.

Speech in question…

All fictional, but it’s easy to picture nodding along until he goes full anti semite.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aiSCEnnhB ... e=emb_logo

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Mosley also married in front of hitler well before WW2 at Goebbles’ home.

Bad dude, albeit probably charismatic and well spoken.

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i watched that and he mentioned the stock market crash and a new decade. new year's eve 1930?? if so, way off the historical timeline. mosley started an unconventional political party in the spring of 1931. in 1930, mosley was making economic proposals to quell british unemployment that even j m keynes, admired. mosley wasn't taken seriously and he went on his own path.

yeah, by that time, i believe he was a full-fledged fascist and hitler wannabe. he said he hated no one for being born what they were. after all, the u.k. was a multi-racial empire, he said. he was very bitter about england losing it's empire.

Yes, so far as the show goes, he’s building a behind the scenes fascist movement in the 20s. The show has Churchill using the main character to monitor these developments.

Had he stuck to pure nationalism, his speeches were wholly consistent with a [country] first POV. They’d have fit today’s political mood quite well.

…but he seemed to buy into the Jew hatred, despite his later denials.

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churchill? sounds like a show i'd get into...but, i'd take most of the show as creative license. churchill was persona non grata in politics for a long time - 1930? i believe churchill was still on the outs, he was blamed in britain and the dominions for the gallipoli disaster and he almost never lived that down.

in my opinion, he was just as nationalistic as mosley and churchill's famous comment about democracy/the average voter, puts churchill near mosley. i believe the need for the usa during ww2 changed churchill's imperialistic persona. today, churchill is a nice guy - an anti-fascist fighter, one that can be portrayed as a nice guy during any patch of history. the recent film 'darkest hour' with gary oldman as churchill - you wish churchill was your grandfather. very flattering.

churchill's comments about the turks/muslims would find him in hot water today - him and PM lloyd george were the opposite of disraeli. after ww1. they gave armament credits to greece, as a proxy to destroy ataturk and his turkish irregular army. things went well for all for a few years until lloyd george lost his coalition & churchill lost his seat and greece lost the credits. ataturk was armed by the fledgling soviet union, the french and italians, who all knew the greeks were indirectly fighting to increase british power in the eastern med.

It’s all historical fiction. The idea is that Churchill is using the main character (in Churchill’s early political career, going back to the 20s) to facilitate some things that are out of scope for traditional govt actions.

Mosley - in real life - is a fascinating guy. Brilliant, recognized his privileges, seemed to embrace serving lower classes - provided they were white, Christian Brits. Absent the disqualifying embrace of Hitler & anti-Semitism, he’d have been prime minister. That’s a big ‘otherwise, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln,’ but Mosley was a very capable, compelling politician that could’ve changed history.

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i'd say that's an accurate description. he may have embraced fascism as his only road to power, after getting rejected by traditional british politics & british establishment. arrogant enough to believe his policies were the only salvation for the empire and intent on implementing them. his remedies for unemployment certainly unsettled the british establishment. the movie 'atonement', saw cumberbatch's character as the epitome of british interwar establishment. owner of a chocolate factory who used his connections to make millions and behaved as if he was above the law. similar to michael gambon's role in 'gosford park'.

mosley started the BUF in 1932? the series had him as an ardent anti-semite & fascist in late 1929? the historical FICTION element developed by the producers just wanted to show this man in a bad light?

It never doesn't end up turning on itself. They despise each other but Marxists and Fascists both always end the same.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

franco and salazar lasted decades as fascist leaders. mussolini of all, started out the most promising and ended up as a comical figure. lesson learned comparing those strongmen: if you aren't prepared for war, stay out of war.