Really? You think men are better on average at accounting? I'm open to your argument.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

In a different thread, I think you argued women make better nurses in general, and I agree with that. More innate empathy. I also think men make better computer programmers as a whole. That's not saying they're smarter, but rather they have a higher nerd propensity that really digs that stuff. Can a woman be the best programmer? Perhaps. I just don't think as a whole, women gravitate to that profession. People like Julie would argue that women would be just as good but they don't get the funding, don't get promoted, amplified, etc. I think there are other biological reasons.

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That response would get you fired at Google , JB.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Okay, that may be true on average or in general, though suggesting such is clearly taboo. Still, I'm not sure something like accounting isn't fairly neutral. Anyway, there are always exceptions. I'm spatially challenged and my wife seems to have an inherent grasp of such things.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Probably. This all has to do with interests and work ethic and priorities resulting from those interests.

Nardi the Greek checking in

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Well this thread is taking quite a turn.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Sociology has studied the egalitarian societies of Scandanavia and found the stereotypes to be mostly true.

But I believe those studies are based on interests rather than abilities. A woman may have the capability to be the world's greatest engineer. The fact that she chooses to be a speech pathologist doesn't negate her capability.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

It also shows women don't put in the hours men do. Can we safely say prioritizing work makes you better at your craft?

What is more disturbing.....Ogie's curiously regarding 15 year old boys, or Nardi's gross misogyny?

Who the fuck is Sociology?

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost

That doesn't mean a specific woman can't choose to put in those hours. Do you find it appropriate to assume she won't based on averages?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

So a woman who works full time is just as good?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The hurt feelings on facts is what's disturbing. I'm not knocking women for being better people than men. Men SHOULDN'T prioritize work like they do. There's a big ol' life out there that deserves more prioritization.

I thought we were speaking in generalities. Most of my business goes to people I've been referred to. I which case, I don't give a shit what gender that is.

What decade are you taking these generalities from? In my neighborhood all but a small few are households where both parents work and the one clear example of a mom who stays home has 4 kids and it almost certainly is not worth the cost of day care for them.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The generalities are from men/women in the workplace. We already know where the discrepancies come on the wage gap.

That and the biggest difference, which is that elite male athletes in America for the most part get funneled into football, basketball, or baseball. For women here, football's obviously off the board, and basketball is off if you're not really tall, so it's soccer. If we put all our estimable resources into getting our STUDS to play soccer from birth, our men could hang 13 on Thailand and do the stanky leg about it, too.

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This is part of what I was referring to earlier in the thread when I was talking about the differences between men and women, advertising, desire, feelings of inadequacy created by marketers, etc.

Obviously, if some "high-powered" career couple does find it financially beneficial to put their children in daycare, those kids are being raised by someone that our society has deemed less important than the people who actually birthed the children. It's fraught with class and other implications such as the idea that the stuff one can buy with money is more important than raising one's own child.

I know that sounds judgmental, but I'm not judging. These are the times we live in. I think we should be able to examine ourselves and the way we choose to live and why we choose to live that way. HEY! MUST BE THE MONEY!

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

You said it shows that women don't put the hours in that men do, but now you seem to be talking about women in general having a higher amount of part time jobs rather than doing a direct comparison of a full time male and female worker.

Take a 40 year old male and a 40 year old female, who worked a full time job as an accountant since they graduated college. Would you expect them both to be equally good at their job? For the sake of argument, give the woman 16 total weeks of maternity leave over those 18 years since I know that will always come up that having a kid and missing 2 months of work somehow puts them permanently behind.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't send my kid to daycare but I will say that daycares seem to have basically become school for 3 year olds now so it does seem to have value too.

It still is an interesting dynamic for sure. I think one of the early forms of the minimum living wage will be making it much easier for parents to stay at home and watch their own kids either with tax breaks or some sort of small stipend to let people "volunteer" out of the workforce and still be able to afford to eat.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Universities response to Title IX codifies the bias toward men playing tackle football vs soccer. In order to even up scholarships between male and female students, a lot of universities don't sponsor official men's scholarship soccer teams. Only 2 SEC schools have men's soccer, but all of them have scholarship women's soccer. Illinois doesn't have men's soccer, along with about half of the Big 10. At one point, there was only a single Division 1 school in the entire state of Texas with a scholarship men's soccer program: SMU (which might've had something to do with SMU not having a football program for a bit).

Well, from what I have been told since the early 90s, soccer is about to take off in massive numbers in America, so this will clearly change quickly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I have no doubt that there are generally some inherent differences in the way males and females process information if we're studying large groups of each.

I like to use understanding of spatial relationships as an example since I believe it has been established that men- once again, generally- have more aptitude in that area.

Clearly that fact would suggest that most great architects are just naturally going to be men. That doesn't, however, preclude Jeanne Gang from being one motherfucker of an architect and maybe even the greatest one currently working.

Also, a personal/anecdotal example of the exception would be my wife and I, as her thought processes are what might be considered traditionally male while mine are female. Back to spatial intelligence, when we were having some work done on our apartment we spent three weeks staying at the home of some friends. We've been in their house on countless occasions other than those three weeks. It's a quirky house that began its life as a small single story farmhouse but has been added onto on various occasions to the point where it now is a two-story faux Tudor. These additions have resulted in quirky features such as a full bath directly off the living room. Anyway, when we returned home we were discussing our friends' house and the strangeness of it and I asked my wife if she could draw a blueprint of the house off the top of her head. She looked at me as if I were an idiot. "Of course". But there's no way I could draw an accurate layout of that house. Or even our own relatively small apartment.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Rick finally on board with free puppies! Can I count on your vote?

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Free puppies!

Well, it has to happen at some point. I just think we are still probably a decade or two away from automation tipping the scales towards an economic advantage being found to pay people to not work.

Yes, I know you are a mult too, but everyone responds to HawaiiYou now when he wants to know where to get cheap White Sox gear while staying at the Palmer House and he seems shocked to learn that Target may have cheap Sox gear.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

yup . can't wait to hear all about his "trip"

Generally, the men will still work longer hours because women prioritize life. Again, that isn't a harsh judgement, it's good judgement by women, IMO.

"Economist John Phelan describes the MBTA as a “union shop with uniform hourly wages where men and women adhere to the same rules and receive the same benefits. Workers are promoted on the basis of seniority rather than performance, and male and female workers of the same seniority have the same choices for scheduling, routes, vacation, and overtime. There is almost no scope here for a sexist boss to favor men over women.”

And yet, Bolotnyy and Emanuel reported that “female workers earn $0.89 on the male-worker dollar (weekly earnings).” The Ph.D. candidates used “confidential administrative data” on the authority’s bus and train operators “to show that the weekly earnings gap can be explained by the workplace choices that women and men make.”

From the abstract:

Women value time away from work and flexibility more than men, taking more unpaid time off using the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) and working fewer overtime hours than men. When overtime hours are scheduled three months in advance, men and women work a similar number of hours; but when those hours are offered at the last minute, men work nearly twice as many. When selecting work schedules, women try to avoid weekend, holiday, and split shifts more than men.

To avoid unfavorable work times, women prioritize their schedules over route safety and select routes with a higher probability of accidents. Women are less likely than men to game the scheduling system by trading off work hours at regular wages for overtime hours at premium wages.

In his Fee.com article on the subject, Phelan explains where the often cited 80 cents for every dollar figure is derived: “by taking the total annual earnings of men in the American economy in a given year and dividing that by the number of male workers. This gives you the average annual earnings of an American man. Then you do the same thing but for women. The average annual women’s earnings come in at about 80 percent of the average annual man’s earnings. Presto, you have a gender wage gap.”

You can judge me harshly in the conclusion that men are better accountants because of the time and extra experience, that's fine. All I'm doing is connecting dots on that conclusion.