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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:08 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Imagine how much more hated Heyward would be if the Cubs hadn't won in 2016. He's been given a big pass, thanks to being in the right place at the right time.


Same could be said for Theo and Joe.

Without that last win, and I think we can all agree some luck was involved, Joe doesn't make it the full five years of his contract and Theo is getting booed by at least half the fans.


Wow and if my aunt had a dick, she would be my uncle. Stunning analysis. When are heading off to write for "The Athletic"?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:14 am 
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IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Or...maybe you don't bench one of your most currently effective hitters.

1/11 this weekend.

Didn't you just warn us all about small sample sizes?

Hadn't stopped you from using them. I used a primary school teachers advice to communicate with you using your thought process.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:16 am 
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Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:18 am 
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IMU wrote:
Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

Over a career and nearly 4 years with a team, it is.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:21 am 
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Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

Over a career and nearly 4 years with a team, it is.

Some players change their effectiveness over the duration of a career.

You'd have released last year's MVP runner-up in 2017? Christian Yelich wouldn't have ever gotten a starting job on one of your teams. Anthony Rizzo wouldn't have made it to Year 4.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:28 am 
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IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

Over a career and nearly 4 years with a team, it is.

Some players change their effectiveness over the duration of a career.

You'd have released last year's MVP runner-up in 2017? Christian Yelich wouldn't have ever gotten a starting job on one of your teams. Anthony Rizzo wouldn't have made it to Year 4.

Are you really comparing him to Yelich or Rizzo? This isn't a good idea.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:06 am 
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Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

Over a career and nearly 4 years with a team, it is.

Some players change their effectiveness over the duration of a career.

You'd have released last year's MVP runner-up in 2017? Christian Yelich wouldn't have ever gotten a starting job on one of your teams. Anthony Rizzo wouldn't have made it to Year 4.

Are you really comparing him to Yelich or Rizzo? This isn't a good idea.

I'm comparing him to the current Cubs OF's, in which he has been the best or second best at the plate and the best or second best in the field.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:11 am 
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Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

Over a career and nearly 4 years with a team, it is.

Some players change their effectiveness over the duration of a career.

You'd have released last year's MVP runner-up in 2017? Christian Yelich wouldn't have ever gotten a starting job on one of your teams. Anthony Rizzo wouldn't have made it to Year 4.

Are you really comparing him to Yelich or Rizzo? This isn't a good idea.

:lol: Stop IMU, I can't take it :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:12 am 
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IMU wrote:
Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

I guess 30 games in a 162 game season isn't one either then.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:18 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
IMU wrote:
Within a 6 month season, a month is not a small sample size.

I guess 30 games in a 162 game season isn't one either then.

We never said that it was. His May wasn't good...it got better toward the end of the month. And even with those bad statistics, he is an .800+ OPS player in the last 28 day span. His last 7 days have him at just under .800 OPS.

Simply put, he had a good April, a bad May, and a decent June. The other regular options are Schwarber, Gonzalez and Almora. Heyward isn't your worst OF.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:22 am 
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Given what his contract is for, and given how his salary has very much hamstrung the payroll into not being able to sign big free agents that the Cubs needed this season, and that you have poor power numbers and poor averages coming out of a power position, and that in clutch situations hes nearly hopeless, I'd love to see him playing elsewhere but since literally no one wants him, the Cubs are stuck with him. Honestly, I'd rather see anyone else getting those regular reps. Hell if you have Schwarber, Almora, bote and Bryant in right as the outfield I'm sure with regular playing time you'd see improvements in bote and almora.
Cant have that kind of lack of production at that price in that position on a championship quality team.
Now I know you'll say bote isnt a right fielder and you're right but he has played it and I believe hes capable of it. And I'd live to see him in the line up every day.


I get that Heyward isnt your WORST outfielder.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:27 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Cant have that kind of lack of production at that price in that position on a championship quality team.

But they already did.

It isn't ideal, but it clearly does not prevent all chance at winning a World Series.

And Heyward is significantly better at the plate now than he was in 2016.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:30 am 
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IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Cant have that kind of lack of production at that price in that position on a championship quality team.

But they already did.

It isn't ideal, but it clearly does not prevent all chance at winning a World Series.

It wasn't because of him, it was literally in spite of him. Do you want to revisit his WS numbers? How about his Cubs postseason numbers? His awfulness in the playoffs (and WC game) sure wasn't easy to overcome in 17 and 18.
Maybe they won the WS because another outfielder you said wasn't as good went bananas in the WS?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:33 am 
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Schwarber postseason

.306. 403. 613 1.016

Pretty impressive stuff.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:36 am 
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I don't recall any OF's going bananas in the World Series. I remember a DH being pretty okay though.

Not every player on your roster needs to be an All Star. Ignoring salaries and performance allocated to certain positions, the Cubs have enough overall talent to win a World Series.

Cubs offense is good.
Cubs starting pitching is good.
Cubs bullpen is bad.

Focus on improving the bullpen, and don't worry too much about Heyward being league average at the plate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:02 am 
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Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Cant have that kind of lack of production at that price in that position on a championship quality team.

But they already did.

It isn't ideal, but it clearly does not prevent all chance at winning a World Series.

It wasn't because of him, it was literally in spite of him. Do you want to revisit his WS numbers? How about his Cubs postseason numbers? His awfulness in the playoffs (and WC game) sure wasn't easy to overcome in 17 and 18.
Maybe they won the WS because another outfielder you said wasn't as good went bananas in the WS?

Many people on here believe his speech was worth the contract and was a significant factor in them winning that WS.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:13 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Cant have that kind of lack of production at that price in that position on a championship quality team.

But they already did.

It isn't ideal, but it clearly does not prevent all chance at winning a World Series.

It wasn't because of him, it was literally in spite of him. Do you want to revisit his WS numbers? How about his Cubs postseason numbers? His awfulness in the playoffs (and WC game) sure wasn't easy to overcome in 17 and 18.
Maybe they won the WS because another outfielder you said wasn't as good went bananas in the WS?

Many people on here believe his speech was worth the contract and was a significant factor in them winning that WS.

A couple of hits would have made that speech unnecessary.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:59 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Darkside wrote:
IMU wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Cant have that kind of lack of production at that price in that position on a championship quality team.

But they already did.

It isn't ideal, but it clearly does not prevent all chance at winning a World Series.

It wasn't because of him, it was literally in spite of him. Do you want to revisit his WS numbers? How about his Cubs postseason numbers? His awfulness in the playoffs (and WC game) sure wasn't easy to overcome in 17 and 18.
Maybe they won the WS because another outfielder you said wasn't as good went bananas in the WS?

Many people on here believe his speech was worth the contract and was a significant factor in them winning that WS.

That is a bit of a stretch.

I think the majority of talk of his speech is said very sarcastically around here.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:07 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I don't recall any OF's going bananas in the World Series.
2005 had a right fielder as the World Series MVP.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:34 pm 
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It would have been interesting if the Yankees or Dodgers had signed Heyward to an identical contract. Would they have ate much of his money and moved him on? Or, like the Cubs propped up his value with obscure sabermetrics, focused on a great defensive play he makes once a month, or marveled at his speeches and clubhouse leadership?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:09 pm 
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vitoscotti wrote:
It would have been interesting if the Yankees or Dodgers had signed Heyward to an identical contract. Would they have ate much of his money and moved him on? Or, like the Cubs propped up his value with obscure sabermetrics, focused on a great defensive play he makes once a month, or marveled at his speeches and clubhouse leadership?

You're going to suggest the Yankees deal with bad contracts better than the Cubs?

Giambi. Ellsbury. Teixeira. Sabathia. Burnett.

Yankees have paid out more bad money than any team. Probably more than any two teams combined.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:17 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Yankees have paid out more bad money than any team. Probably more than any two teams combined.


When you are one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, you are more than likely going to pay out more bad money than any other team.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
IMU wrote:
Yankees have paid out more bad money than any team. Probably more than any two teams combined.


When you are one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, you are more than likely going to pay out more bad money than any other team.

The Cubs are also one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, so we should be pretty happy at the low percentage of bad money the Cubs have paid out.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:01 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
IMU wrote:
Yankees have paid out more bad money than any team. Probably more than any two teams combined.


When you are one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, you are more than likely going to pay out more bad money than any other team.

The Cubs are also one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, so we should be pretty happy at the low percentage of bad money the Cubs have paid out.


Not even comparable to the Yankees payroll over the last 20 years.

You've had a bad stretch so I won't post the actual numbers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:14 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
IMU wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
IMU wrote:
Yankees have paid out more bad money than any team. Probably more than any two teams combined.


When you are one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, you are more than likely going to pay out more bad money than any other team.

The Cubs are also one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, so we should be pretty happy at the low percentage of bad money the Cubs have paid out.


Not even comparable to the Yankees payroll over the last 20 years.

You've had a bad stretch so I won't post the actual numbers.

No one is close to the Yankees. Because of all the bad contracts.

Do you want the Cubs to have spent as much bad money as the Yankees?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Do the Yankees & Dodgers prop bad money guys up, and imply fans shouldn't believe their eyes?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:22 pm 
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Last 20 years?
Soriano, Bradley, although its 22 years why not add Todd Hundley, fukudome, of course Heyward, chatwood and morrow of course, Latroy Hawkins, Jeff Blauser (22 years), honorable mention to Micky Morandini, Darvish, and I'm sure there are many more that I'm trying to forget. Do trades count? Mcgriff. Nomar.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:31 pm 
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vitoscotti wrote:
Do the Yankees & Dodgers prop bad money guys up, and imply fans shouldn't believe their eyes?



Nope, The Yanks bad contracts though like Giambi( he had a couple great seasons with NY, maybe even 3) Heyward hasn't had half of a good season, let alone great.

C.C. had 3 great seasons
Texiera had a couple great seasons
Burnett won a few playoff games and a WS game then they traded him.

Heyward is the biggest piece of crap the Cubs ever signed, he's untradeable and he won't ever have an impact on anything positive.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:32 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
IMU wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
IMU wrote:
Yankees have paid out more bad money than any team. Probably more than any two teams combined.


When you are one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, you are more than likely going to pay out more bad money than any other team.

The Cubs are also one of the top spending teams over the last 20 years, so we should be pretty happy at the low percentage of bad money the Cubs have paid out.


Not even comparable to the Yankees payroll over the last 20 years.

You've had a bad stretch so I won't post the actual numbers.

No one is close to the Yankees. Because of all the bad contracts.

Do you want the Cubs to have spent as much bad money as the Yankees?


You just put the Cubs in the same mention as the Yankees on "payroll spending over the last 20 years". The totals between the two are not even close.


Last edited by Peoria Matt on Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Heyward, Darvish, Chatwood and Morrow are Yankee like bad deals. They account for more than a quarter of the teams payroll. That's horrible.


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