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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:56 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I like how he claimed that he got to Lake Geneva from Wrigleyville in less than an hour on a Friday afternoon MANY times.


Especially considering Lake Geneva to Gurnee is 45 minutes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:57 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I like how he claimed that he got to Lake Geneva from Wrigleyville in less than an hour on a Friday afternoon MANY times.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

that's impossible. it takes an hour just to get to the kennedy
:lol: He claimes he did it all the time. He said he would leave his place at 1:30, and have a drink in his hand at the Lake Geneva Lodge by 3.

Even Doug chimed in and was like "yeah I design Road systems like this and what you're saying is not possible."

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:14 am 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Ironic (and true) that Daley of all people wanted to kill off family businesses.


Why soak Joe Tavern for $500-1000 every six months when you can get the big boys to cut $10-20K checks with impunity?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:34 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
As the board approaches the inevitable end based mostly on a single poster ruining the experience for everyone, I thought it would be a cool thing to play some of the classics that bigfan likely deleted because, well, the board ran out of thread space?

Anyways, remember the huge uproar about banning smoking in restaurants and bars. Bars and restaurants would cease to exist. Everyone would drive to Indiana to drink. Personal liberty would cease to exist. The Founding Fathers would have literally put us on their knee and spanked every single American citizen.

Instead, pretty much everyone agrees it was the right thing to do and no one even pushes for things to be different even if they smoke.

So, thanks government. You did something right!


It's pretty clear the market would have addressed the problem without government interference, especially for restaurants.

That isn't clear at all.


I'm sure a lot of restaurants would have remained proudly defiant of their client's wishes as smoking was reduced to the lowest levels in recorded history of the us, with the most pronounced decline among people 18-24.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:40 am 
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Good thing bars were included then.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:54 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I'm sure a lot of restaurants would have remained proudly defiant of their client's wishes as smoking was reduced to the lowest levels in recorded history of the us, with the most pronounced decline among people 18-24.
It wasn't happening before the ban though. Pretty much every restaurant had a smoking section still until they weren't allowed to and every bar I ever went to allowed smoking.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:00 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I'm sure a lot of restaurants would have remained proudly defiant of their client's wishes as smoking was reduced to the lowest levels in recorded history of the us, with the most pronounced decline among people 18-24.
It wasn't happening before the ban though. Pretty much every restaurant had a smoking section still until they weren't allowed to and every bar I ever went to allowed smoking.


Do you dispute that it wouldn't have happened or just the speed with which it happened?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:17 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I'm sure a lot of restaurants would have remained proudly defiant of their client's wishes as smoking was reduced to the lowest levels in recorded history of the us, with the most pronounced decline among people 18-24.
It wasn't happening before the ban though. Pretty much every restaurant had a smoking section still until they weren't allowed to and every bar I ever went to allowed smoking.


Do you dispute that it wouldn't have happened or just the speed with which it happened?

I don't think it would have happened without the ban. It's hard for a bar/restaurant to turn away even 3% of their customers when the place next door is willing to take them.

I think you only have to look at Las Vegas and the casinos to see that businesses aren't voluntarily putting themselves at a disadvantage.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:27 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I'm sure a lot of restaurants would have remained proudly defiant of their client's wishes as smoking was reduced to the lowest levels in recorded history of the us, with the most pronounced decline among people 18-24.
It wasn't happening before the ban though. Pretty much every restaurant had a smoking section still until they weren't allowed to and every bar I ever went to allowed smoking.


Do you dispute that it wouldn't have happened or just the speed with which it happened?

I don't think it would have happened without the ban. It's hard for a bar/restaurant to turn away even 3% of their customers when the place next door is willing to take them.

I think you only have to look at Las Vegas and the casinos to see that businesses aren't voluntarily putting themselves at a disadvantage.


Rick, do you have any idea how many restaurants - small, mop-and-pops, not TGI Fridays - got screwed into spending thousands of dollars on a "smoke-eater," essentially a giant air filter system, in their smoking sections in order to be compliant with the code a year or two prior to the smoking ban?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Rick, do you have any idea how many restaurants - small, mop-and-pops, not TGI Fridays - got screwed into spending thousands of dollars on a "smoke-eater," essentially a giant air filter system, in their smoking sections in order to be compliant with the code a year or two prior to the smoking ban?
I don't. I think that helps my point though that without government intervention that restaurants and bars would have done anything they could to still let smoking customers come and smoke in their establishments.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Rick, do you have any idea how many restaurants - small, mop-and-pops, not TGI Fridays - got screwed into spending thousands of dollars on a "smoke-eater," essentially a giant air filter system, in their smoking sections in order to be compliant with the code a year or two prior to the smoking ban?
I don't. I think that helps my point though that without government intervention that restaurants and bars would have done anything they could to still let smoking customers come and smoke in their establishments.



Why shouldn't it be voluntary? My place would be non smoking. I know that, because I know my clientele.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Why shouldn't it be voluntary? My place would be non smoking. I know that, because I know my clientele.
It was voluntary for decades and virtually every place was either completely smoking or had a smoking section that was only somewhat effective.

It puts all businesses on an even playing field. As you are aware, the margins for restaurants are fairly slim and restaurants are almost certainly not going to turn away clients who smoke if the guy next door is willing to let them. Bars wouldn't even consider it.

The overwhelming choice of exempt places like casinos have been to keep smoking.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:48 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Why shouldn't it be voluntary? My place would be non smoking. I know that, because I know my clientele.
It was voluntary for decades and virtually every place was either completely smoking or had a smoking section that was only somewhat effective.

It puts all businesses on an even playing field. As you are aware, the margins for restaurants are fairly slim and restaurants are almost certainly not going to turn away clients who smoke if the guy next door is willing to let them. Bars wouldn't even consider it.

The overwhelming choice of exempt places like casinos have been to keep smoking.



You are diminishing the judgement of the owner/operator to stick with their own rules.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:51 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Rick, do you have any idea how many restaurants - small, mop-and-pops, not TGI Fridays - got screwed into spending thousands of dollars on a "smoke-eater," essentially a giant air filter system, in their smoking sections in order to be compliant with the code a year or two prior to the smoking ban?
I don't. I think that helps my point though that without government intervention that restaurants and bars would have done anything they could to still let smoking customers come and smoke in their establishments.



Why shouldn't it be voluntary? My place would be non smoking. I know that, because I know my clientele.



It should be voluntary.

Ran a nightclub 20 years ago. We had an expensive and very good, air filtration system.

You could sit near someone with a cigar and go home without a trace of it on your clothes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
You are diminishing the judgement of the owner/operator to stick with their own rules.
The ban does take the decision out of the owner/operator. Owners, I mean Governors of the Establishment, had to risk a loss of customers to the guy across the street in a business where the margins are pretty thin. That meant that pretty much everyone chose to keep smoking as an option in one way or another. I'm not sure I've ever been in a casino that has gone smoke free.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
You are diminishing the judgement of the owner/operator to stick with their own rules.
The ban does take the decision out of the owner/operator. Owners, I mean Governors of the Establishment, had to risk a loss of customers to the guy across the street in a business where the margins are pretty thin. That meant that pretty much everyone chose to keep smoking as an option in one way or another. I'm not sure I've ever been in a casino that has gone smoke free.



That is ridiculous. You can market yourself as the non-smoking place.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
It should be voluntary.

Ran a nightclub 20 years ago. We had an expensive and very good, air filtration system.

You could sit near someone with a cigar and go home without a trace of it on your clothes.
I guess if every bar had that magical system then it wouldn't have been needed. Sadly, at the time of the ban, that wasn't true of any place I ever went to.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Why shouldn't it be voluntary? My place would be non smoking. I know that, because I know my clientele.
It was voluntary for decades and virtually every place was either completely smoking or had a smoking section that was only somewhat effective.

It puts all businesses on an even playing field. As you are aware, the margins for restaurants are fairly slim and restaurants are almost certainly not going to turn away clients who smoke if the guy next door is willing to let them. Bars wouldn't even consider it.

The overwhelming choice of exempt places like casinos have been to keep smoking.



You are diminishing the judgement of the owner/operator to stick with their own rules.



Next thing you know Rick is going to be forcing you to serve a burger that celebrates the inauguration of Donald J. Trump!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
That is ridiculous. You can market yourself as the non-smoking place.
I can only speak anecdotally but I never found a non-smoking bar anywhere that didn't have it banned by the government. There were some restaurants that did I am sure but I remember most of them having smoking sections. As you pointed out though, many restaurants would rather have spent thousands of dollars to try and hold onto smokers rather than just ban it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:07 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Why shouldn't it be voluntary? My place would be non smoking. I know that, because I know my clientele.
It was voluntary for decades and virtually every place was either completely smoking or had a smoking section that was only somewhat effective.

It puts all businesses on an even playing field. As you are aware, the margins for restaurants are fairly slim and restaurants are almost certainly not going to turn away clients who smoke if the guy next door is willing to let them. Bars wouldn't even consider it.

The overwhelming choice of exempt places like casinos have been to keep smoking.



You are diminishing the judgement of the owner/operator to stick with their own rules.



Next thing you know Rick is going to be forcing you to serve a burger that celebrates the inauguration of Donald J. Trump!


You've never met my brother. I think we almost did that one...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:07 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Why shouldn't it be voluntary? My place would be non smoking. I know that, because I know my clientele.
It was voluntary for decades and virtually every place was either completely smoking or had a smoking section that was only somewhat effective.

It puts all businesses on an even playing field. As you are aware, the margins for restaurants are fairly slim and restaurants are almost certainly not going to turn away clients who smoke if the guy next door is willing to let them. Bars wouldn't even consider it.

The overwhelming choice of exempt places like casinos have been to keep smoking.



You are diminishing the judgement of the owner/operator to stick with their own rules.



Next thing you know Rick is going to be forcing you to serve a burger that celebrates the inauguration of Donald J. Trump!


You've never met my brother. I think we almost did that one...


:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:09 pm 
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The schools have done all the work on brainwashing kids how awful smoking is for you. The smoking ban is irrelevant. Now all these kids vape, which is probably just as bad or possibly worse for ya. I still have a dozen bars in Chicago I smoke in.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:13 pm 
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312player wrote:
The schools have done all the work on brainwashing kids how awful smoking is for you. The smoking ban is irrelevant. Now all these kids vape, which is probably just as bad or possibly worse for ya. I still have a dozen bars in Chicago I smoke in.

Jersey Joe's just passed around plastic cups...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:13 pm 
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The smoking ban was justified as a workplace health and safety issue.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:14 pm 
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My grade school classrooms all had these posters:

Image
Image

Nowadays those posters are probably seen as female body-shaming and an attack on the homeless respectively.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:15 pm 
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312player wrote:
The schools have done all the work on brainwashing kids how awful smoking is for you. The smoking ban is irrelevant. Now all these kids vape, which is probably just as bad or possibly worse for ya. I still have a dozen bars in Chicago I smoke in.


I don't smoke anymore, but I know you can smoke in Richard's at Milwaukee and Grand.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:15 pm 
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I still have those hanging in my living room.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
312player wrote:
The schools have done all the work on brainwashing kids how awful smoking is for you. The smoking ban is irrelevant. Now all these kids vape, which is probably just as bad or possibly worse for ya. I still have a dozen bars in Chicago I smoke in.


I don't smoke anymore, but I know you can smoke in Richard's at Milwaukee and Grand.



Yeah, they have one of those sophisticated air filtration systems. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
That is ridiculous. You can market yourself as the non-smoking place.
I can only speak anecdotally but I never found a non-smoking bar anywhere that didn't have it banned by the government. There were some restaurants that did I am sure but I remember most of them having smoking sections. As you pointed out though, many restaurants would rather have spent thousands of dollars to try and hold onto smokers rather than just ban it.



Rick, one of your God-given rights as a capitalist should be the ability to read the room. And I will be the first to admit that a smoking ban has probably had a neutral-to-positive effect on a place like mine. And Tall Midget is right, it is a workplace health issue. But if I have access to a population who wants to smoke, and a workforce willing to absorb the risk, and there is a market for it, why wouldn't/shouldn't I?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:32 pm 
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air filtration doesn't do much when you're sitting in a row of bar patrons chain-smoking parliaments.

12th Street Rag out on Roosevelt in Berwyn would pretty much make you smoke when you hung out there.


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