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Forced Institutionalization of homeless people...
Poll ended at Sun May 06, 2018 7:57 pm
Radical solution to problem 36%  36%  [ 5 ]
Unconstitutional violation of rights 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Please, God, don't ask me my opinion on anything 36%  36%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 14
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:15 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
I had an uncle that was homeless for a while. It's hard, and I'm always torn on whether or not to give money to the people at stoplights or on the street. I kinda wonder about them or their stories at times too.
Offer them some food, or a toothbrush, or a winter hat/gloves if its cold out. If they refuse and just want money, then you know they aren't being 100% honest.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:26 am 
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The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
RFDC wrote:
We should designate a state as a place for all the homeless. Arkansas would work. They have decent weather for most of the year. Round em all up and drop em off. It would definitely raise the IQ level of the state


I nominate Mississippi


I suggest New York. I worked in Arkansas for 6 years. A beautiful state. A lot of good people in the state. Send them to New York. It would definitely improve the moral compass of the state.

I'm moving to NW Arkansas, let's do Mississippi since I'm going to go full NIMBY here. Alabama could work as well as a punishment for nominating Roy Moore.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I had an uncle that was homeless for a while. It's hard, and I'm always torn on whether or not to give money to the people at stoplights or on the street. I kinda wonder about them or their stories at times too.
Offer them some food, or a toothbrush, or a winter hat/gloves if its cold out. If they refuse and just want money, then you know they aren't being 100% honest.


i think wanting to buy drugs and/or alcohol is being pretty honest


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:31 am 
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I am away on vacation and haven’t kept up. Has anyone mentioned adding significantly more homeless people?

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:38 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I am away on vacation and haven’t kept up. Has anyone mentioned adding significantly more homeless people?


It was acknowledged 3 times, but it was really mentioned 4.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:05 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am away on vacation and haven’t kept up. Has anyone mentioned adding significantly more homeless people?


It was acknowledged 3 times, but it was really mentioned 4.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:28 am 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am away on vacation and haven’t kept up. Has anyone mentioned adding significantly more homeless people?


It was acknowledged 3 times, but it was really mentioned 4.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:48 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
RFDC wrote:
We should designate a state as a place for all the homeless. Arkansas would work. They have decent weather for most of the year. Round em all up and drop em off. It would definitely raise the IQ level of the state


I nominate Mississippi


I suggest New York. I worked in Arkansas for 6 years. A beautiful state. A lot of good people in the state. Send them to New York. It would definitely improve the moral compass of the state.

I'm moving to NW Arkansas, let's do Mississippi since I'm going to go full NIMBY here. Alabama could work as well as a punishment for nominating Roy Moore.



Look into a place called Hot Springs village. It is a vacation and retirement place. Several lakes, spas, pools, 3-4 golf courses, nice community centers and a gated community. Its really a nice place and our family had a great time vacationing there while my in laws lived there and we visited. If you have young kids, they will love the complex.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:00 am 
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Drop off about 1000 port-a-potties at these homeless camps but only 19 rolls of generic,single ply toilet paper.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:15 am 
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Sydney faced the exact same problem. Their solution was to make it easier to develop and build more inventory. I wonder how that played out...

https://reason.com/2019/07/15/heads-up- ... ents-down/

It's amazing what free markets can do when you actually allow them to be true free markets.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:26 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Sydney faced the exact same problem. Their solution was to make it easier to develop and build more inventory. I wonder how that played out...

https://reason.com/2019/07/15/heads-up- ... ents-down/

It's amazing what free markets can do when you actually allow them to be true free markets.



People know in their brains what is the answer and what works. They just can't temper their liberal hearts to try it and let it play out. Immediate feel good wins out over patience.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:51 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Sydney faced the exact same problem. Their solution was to make it easier to develop and build more inventory. I wonder how that played out...

https://reason.com/2019/07/15/heads-up- ... ents-down/

It's amazing what free markets can do when you actually allow them to be true free markets.
What does that have to do with homelessness though? People aren't living on the streets of San Francisco because rent per month is $100 too high.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Sydney faced the exact same problem. Their solution was to make it easier to develop and build more inventory. I wonder how that played out...

https://reason.com/2019/07/15/heads-up- ... ents-down/

It's amazing what free markets can do when you actually allow them to be true free markets.
What does that have to do with homelessness though? People aren't living on the streets of San Francisco because rent per month is $100 too high.

People are living on the streets because there is a literal shortage of available housing in San Francisco (and California in general). There is a 3-4 million unit shortage statewide. That shortage not only means there aren't enough homes, but it led to the price of existing homes to increase significantly.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:36 am 
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Building more houses will lower rent. It's not going to decrease the number of homeless unless it's paired with other assistance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
People are living on the streets because there is a literal shortage of available housing in San Francisco (and California in general). There is a 3-4 million unit shortage statewide. That shortage not only means there aren't enough homes, but it led to the price of existing homes to increase significantly.
That isn't why people are living in the street in California. They aren't checking the classifieds and saying "Well, I like this studio apartment, but I can't afford the last $100 of rent on it". They mostly are jobless. Many have mental illness. They make their money begging for it which is most successful in big cities. You could build 10,000 apartments in San Franscisco and the homeless population would stay unchanged. The year round weather, comparatively good services for the homeless, and enough well off tourists and residents to keep them making enough money begging keeps it.

Increasing housing stock would help the lower income people in the city who have to commute by bus into the city to possibly live closer to work but it isn't coming anywhere close to solving homelessness and in many ways could actually increase it.

Now, the problem becomes that people don't necessarily all want to live in an entire landmass of endless skyscrapers and turning San Francisco into one may do as much harm as good.

Honestly, the only real way to stop homelessness would be a federal program that doesn't make certain cities better for the homeless so you have cities buying bus tickets to California to get them away from their cities. The free market can't solve homeless people.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Increasing housing stock would help the lower income people in the city who have to commute by bus into the city to possibly live closer to work but it isn't coming anywhere close to solving homelessness and in many ways could actually increase it.

Those lower income people that could not afford the commute costs + the housing costs of living further away became homeless.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
People are living on the streets because there is a literal shortage of available housing in San Francisco (and California in general). There is a 3-4 million unit shortage statewide. That shortage not only means there aren't enough homes, but it led to the price of existing homes to increase significantly.
That isn't why people are living in the street in California. They aren't checking the classifieds and saying "Well, I like this studio apartment, but I can't afford the last $100 of rent on it". They mostly are jobless. Many have mental illness. They make their money begging for it which is most successful in big cities. You could build 10,000 apartments in San Franscisco and the homeless population would stay unchanged. The year round weather, comparatively good services for the homeless, and enough well off tourists and residents to keep them making enough money begging keeps it.

Increasing housing stock would help the lower income people in the city who have to commute by bus into the city to possibly live closer to work but it isn't coming anywhere close to solving homelessness and in many ways could actually increase it.

Now, the problem becomes that people don't necessarily all want to live in an entire landmass of endless skyscrapers and turning San Francisco into one may do as much harm as good.

Honestly, the only real way to stop homelessness would be a federal program that doesn't make certain cities better for the homeless so you have cities buying bus tickets to California to get them away from their cities. The free market can't solve homeless people.

The homeless in CA are different than the homeless in a place like Chicago. In Chicago, you tend to have mentally ill individuals who cannot keep a job and cannot support themselves under any circumstance.

In California, the homeless are often families of people who have jobs but the restrictive zoning and other measures have made it impossible to find affordable housing because the inventory is 3-4 million units short (and that inventory shortage is growing each year). These are people who would have a roof over their head if the cost were to be decreased.

So yes, the path Sydney took would solve a substantial chunk of California's homeless epidemic and would also lower costs and improve the financial situation for those who are already in homes.

San Francisco is on a peninsula. They have to build up and they need to build for density. You can't just have NIMBY's using zoning rules to ban any structure over 40 feet tall under the bullshit excuse of "preserving the neighborhood."

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The homeless in CA are different than the homeless in a place like Chicago. In Chicago, you tend to have mentally ill individuals who cannot keep a job and cannot support themselves under any circumstance.
I've only been to San Francisco two times but I witnessed more mentally ill homeless people in SF than I ever have in Chicago. A police officer was about to pepper spray one on one of the biggest intersections in the city and people who lived there kind of just walked past it like it was normal.

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
In California, the homeless are often families of people who have jobs but the restrictive zoning and other measures have made it impossible to find affordable housing because the inventory is 3-4 million units short (and that inventory shortage is growing each year). These are people who would have a roof over their head if the cost were to be decreased.
Those who are capable of having a job are capable of going to a lower income area where they could afford to work and have a place to stay. These aren't people who worked well paying jobs but couldn't afford $3,000 a month in rent.

Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
So yes, the path Sydney took would solve a substantial chunk of California's homeless epidemic and would also lower costs and improve the financial situation for those who are already in homes.
Even if it did, it would get filled in with homeless people from other areas because unfortunately the weather there along with a bigger support system for the homeless makes many California cities an ideal location for the homeless.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Another big difference between Chicago and San Francisco is that Chicago development can build up and out in almost every direction with no serious physical encumbrances. San Francisco is a tiny little city on the tip of a long peninsula and is prone to earthquakes. Maybe the Bay Area just isn't meant to support as many people as it has now, no matter how pleasant the weather is and how desirable the city of San Francisco is.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:30 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Another big difference between Chicago and San Francisco is that Chicago development can build up and out in almost every direction with no serious physical encumbrances. San Francisco is a tiny little city on the tip of a long peninsula and is prone to earthquakes. Maybe the Bay Area just isn't meant to support as many people as it has now, no matter how pleasant the weather is and how desirable the city of San Francisco is.

Tokyo is situated in an area with even more violent fault lines than San Francisco. Japan has taught the rest of the world that tall, steel frame structures are actually the best options for earthquake survivability. In fact, the 1989 earthquake tended to do most of its damage to the single occupancy homes that the NIMBY's and zoning regulations wish to protect.

San Francisco can support far more people than it has today, it just requires getting the NIMBY's and government out of the way of the developers who can properly build for density as any other sensible city would. Heck, even Seattle (also an earthquake zone) has started this approach and is starting to see rent prices fall.

Earthquakes, if anything, should be a reason to build more high rises in California.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Japan really has no choice though. Their whole landmass is smaller than the state of California.

We don't need San Francisco to look like Manhattan.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Japan really has no choice though. Their whole landmass is smaller than the state of California.

We don't need San Francisco to look like Manhattan.

Who doesn't?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:54 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Another big difference between Chicago and San Francisco is that Chicago development can build up and out in almost every direction with no serious physical encumbrances. San Francisco is a tiny little city on the tip of a long peninsula and is prone to earthquakes. Maybe the Bay Area just isn't meant to support as many people as it has now, no matter how pleasant the weather is and how desirable the city of San Francisco is.


Pretty damn chilly there there two weeks ago.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:11 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Another big difference between Chicago and San Francisco is that Chicago development can build up and out in almost every direction with no serious physical encumbrances. San Francisco is a tiny little city on the tip of a long peninsula and is prone to earthquakes. Maybe the Bay Area just isn't meant to support as many people as it has now, no matter how pleasant the weather is and how desirable the city of San Francisco is.


Pretty damn chilly there there two weeks ago.

We get it dude.
We all know you were in California.
Is there a contest here to see how many times you can mention that?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:44 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Another big difference between Chicago and San Francisco is that Chicago development can build up and out in almost every direction with no serious physical encumbrances. San Francisco is a tiny little city on the tip of a long peninsula and is prone to earthquakes. Maybe the Bay Area just isn't meant to support as many people as it has now, no matter how pleasant the weather is and how desirable the city of San Francisco is.


Pretty damn chilly there there two weeks ago.

Pride week?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:53 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Another big difference between Chicago and San Francisco is that Chicago development can build up and out in almost every direction with no serious physical encumbrances. San Francisco is a tiny little city on the tip of a long peninsula and is prone to earthquakes. Maybe the Bay Area just isn't meant to support as many people as it has now, no matter how pleasant the weather is and how desirable the city of San Francisco is.


Pretty damn chilly there there two weeks ago.

We get it dude.
We all know you were in California.
Is there a contest here to see how many times you can mention that?


:lol: :lol: Glad you're back, Dickslide. I really missed you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:14 pm 
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Going to California with an aching, in my head

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Give them the $250 and drop them off in TJ.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:49 pm 
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The solution to the homeless problem is to have more abortions


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:52 pm 
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The solution to the homeless problem is to have more abortions

Oddly, a freakonomics theory.

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