What are the case details that are so significant here that have been missed?

She was 24. He was 19. They met at a party. They both were drunk. At some point they wondered off? Did she consent to that? She has little to no memory of the night, but there do not seem to be absolute evidence one way or the other until:

At some point she seemed to be passed out or at least non-responsive. How aware was the 19 year old of her condition at the time? They were engaged in some sort of sexual activity. It seems like it peaked at digital penetration.

Yet, people seem content to call him a rapist. Like there is no difference between what happened here, and a guy seeking into someone's house and raping her.

And she is a completely innocent victim, who deserves celebrity and a book deal.

Meanwhile, Mauteen Cleaves was found not guilty despite this video as evidence:

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Why do you keep repeating this like it is some important fact? They are both adults.

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She was the victim of a crime where he was found to have been guilty of three counts of sexual assault. That is why most people view him as a rapist.

The fact that he didn't break into her house doesn't mean he isn't a rapist.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

And it is inaccurate, as she was 22.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Did the woman give consent prior to being chased down by Cleaves?

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The going down on a passed out dude scenario? If he passed out before she started going down on him, yes. If he passed out during the act and she kept going? She might be, but I doubt the state would charge her (or a man if the roles were reveresed) with a crime.

FWIW, I don't think Brock Turner is evil. I can see why the media would run with his story: a rich white dude receives what seems like a lenient sentence because he's a rich white dude. His dad did him no favors when he said that his son's three month sentence, "is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action."

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What crime did she commit? Who besides you is saying she deserves to be a celebrity and get a book deal? It's not as though the New York Times was beating down her door. She got attention because her victim impact statement, coupled with the facts of the case, picked up traction in the media.

Also, it's telling that you want to give her agency when it comes to her role in the assualt, but take away that same agency for everything that happened after that.

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I agree with you.

And obviously the old man's statement is completely outrageous. But even if the words been different, if he had used language that wasn't so incendiary, his appeal to the Court followed by a sentence that many considered light- and more than that, the judge's explanation for it- smacked of Turner hiding in "Big Daddy's pocket" or the worst kind of "old boy network".

Still, I would argue that Turner has become the locus for a certain type of rage- I was going to say because of who he is, but that isn't exactly right- because of what he represents.

And in a time when our leading progressive voices are lobbying for the reduction of prison populations and the extension of second chances, the constituency of those voices is simultaneously demanding the harshest possible punishment for this guy. I would submit that that is the very definition of moral confusion.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It's hard for people to avoid wanting to punish him for what he represents because his dad laid it out so clearly with those comments. People like this kid aren't normally punished, so it's a real shock when they face consequences for their actions.

This kid's case is an example of what I'm talking about:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch

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I know everyone is such a stickler for the law here. Who bought the alcohol? Who has far more experience with alcohol and college parties?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

You could have just said they were both drunk and he made a mistake, but then you go and post shit like this. It's like you're willing him to be the primary victim in all of this.

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This really is the only question that matters. If she bought the alcohol then he's innocent.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Do you post completely retarded things like this and then step back from the keyboard and proclaim "nailed it"?

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When you post arguments like "retarded things" do you realize that you have no point?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Checkmate!

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This thread ended perfectly. Here I am shitting it up.

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In A Time to Kill, 'Ruffcorn was the guy rooting against Carl Lee.