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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:25 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Imagine how much people would be mocking Kenny for giving a massive contract and then him having a career worst year.
Not signing Machado or Haper was one thing. It was the way the Sox handled things after that made them come across like a minor league team.

Rick Hahn should have simply said something to the affect of, "We made an incredibly large offer. We felt we were right there. We had guarantees that would have been nearly triple the largest contract the Sox have ever given out, and there were incentives to have it be even richer. We tried and it didn't work out. We wish Manny the best of luck, and we are moving on to Spring Training."

And then say nothing else further on the subject.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:29 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
First priority for me would be extensions. Giolito and Moncada need to be wrapped up while it can still be done at a reasonable cost. Next up would be McCann then I'd look at seeing if they could work one over on Kopech.

Next up would be a LH starter. I reckon they'll trade for one rather than sign one.

Then find some stopgap solution to LF, doesn't have to be outstanding just a guy who can play adequate defense and scrounge together a .300 obp.

Round it out with bullpen signings and a few lateral trades to shore up weak spots in the pen or maybe upgrade the rotation.

Basically attack next year with the hope that adding Kopech, Robert and Madrigal plus improvements from Rey Lopez and Cease is enough to couple with a bunch of minor moves to make a run at the division. Just abandon any delusion that they'll be in the running for Gerritt Cole or anyone on that level.


1. LF is Eloy, I assume you mean RF

2. There is zero reason to wrap up Mc Cann. He is in his last year of arbitration so he is a Sox. After that he will be a 31 year old catcher. He won't blow up any more than he did in the first half of this year. He will most likely regress to his backup profile.

3. I think a SP is where they will focus big money. I'm not sure they will find a LH. Bumgarner certainly fits the bill but where will the market go for him with all that mileage. If not, get Wheeler and then sign a lesser LH like Hamels or Rich Hill.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:47 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Imagine how much people would be mocking Kenny for giving a massive contract and then him having a career worst year.


Why? I'd be thinking it was a great PR move in a throw away year and have a real reason for hope he would be great during his baseball prime

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:56 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I don't care what Machado does as he is not on the team I root for.

I'm just saying that unless Machado puts up super star/MVP type numbers, he is not likely to get more money than he is already guaranteed to get should he stay in SD. All along the rumor was Machado wanted the $300mil guaranteed, and he got it. If he were going to bank on himself to get even more $ based on his performance, then why didn't he sign with the White Sox?


because not only did the sox not have the biggest offer, they put in all kinds of kinky shit into the contract where it stunk of typical bad faith negotiating by JR

MM has three MVP level seasons by the age of 25. The chances are more likely than not he has multiple similar level years while in his prime. Then, at 31 when the market has adjusted upward, all he needs is a contract that pays him more than 150 million. The annual becomes less important at that point because if he stayed with the contract he would be a FA at 36 and most likely get little. So if he can get 6 @ 165 he is still ahead of the rest of 5 @ 150+ one year of FA at 36.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am 
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Great, I couldn't care less. I truly do not think a 31 year old is going to get a six year deal north of $160mil though, unless he puts up HOF type numbers as I said.



The Sox need to fix their bullpen for 2020. Colome has had a pretty good year, but outside of Bummer the rest of the pen has been trash for MANY seasons.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:15 am 
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and a little enlightenment for those who think the one contract at 30 million per year would have prevented any other moves:

-it would have put them at 107 million this year (probably less as they signed all those additional bums)
-90M in 2020
-142M in 2021
-193 in 2022
-187 in 2023

that is all in including projected arbitrations for the big guys and MM @ 30

League average payroll in 2019 is $136M. The White Sox have been banking on payroll during the tank.

There was a story written a couple of months ago about the financial impact Harper's contract had on the Phillies and his presence more than justified the contract.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:18 am 
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gd, you have not addressed the fact that the Sox 3rd baseman and SS this season have been better than Machado. Maybe not signing him comes back to bite the Sox in the ass. Maybe it winds up being a great non-move as the left side of the Sox infield continues to develop. After all, if you are expecting Machado to return to MVP type seasons, shouldn't you be expecting further development and improvement from Yoan and Timmay?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:33 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
gd, you have not addressed the fact that the Sox 3rd baseman and SS this season have been better than Machado. Maybe not signing him comes back to bite the Sox in the ass. Maybe it winds up being a great non-move as the left side of the Sox infield continues to develop. After all, if you are expecting Machado to return to MVP type seasons, shouldn't you be expecting further development and improvement from Yoan and Timmay?


He doesn't have to be better than the SS and 3B this season for an upgrade. He has to be better than Yolmer.

Machado is a little less than a year older than Timmy. That should put some perspective on their relative career arcs. No, I do not think expecting MM to return to the norm during his prime years is any kind of unreasonable projection. The truth is I could reasonably expect him to exceed those numbers in his prime.

There will be some progression for TA as well. I think he will steal 50 bases. I think he will hit 25HR. I don't think he will be much better at fielding. I don't think he will get on base more. This was his big improvement year. It will be incremental from here.

Yoan...the sky is the limit for Yoan.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:36 am 
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If you are going to talk about their career arcs, you have to mention that Machado has been playing baseball his whole life while Anderson has been playing baseball for barely ten years. There is no comparison with Machado's glove to Anderson.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:07 pm 
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If Machado is in Chicago, his numbers are likely better.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:34 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
If Machado is in Chicago, his numbers are likely better.


they dropped off after Tatis got hurt

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:32 pm 
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I think Anderson is a douche for pimping 3rd inning home runs when you’re a dozen games under .500 but he’s answered the fucking bell with the Machado situation 100%. I loved what he said when it was going down that it was his job and basically fuck Manny Machado. That’s walking the walk after talking the talk. He’s had a great season. Kudos to him .

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:47 pm 
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But it's OK when Willlllson and Baez have passion and do the same thing with HRs.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
But it's OK when Willlllson and Baez have passion and do the same thing with HRs.

No Frank, they’re assholes for doing it too. Also, Cubs aren’t a dozen games under .

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:19 pm 
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I don't think they are. Baseball needs a little fire and passion. You jack a ball 400' into the stands, go ahead and stare at it for 3 seconds.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I don't think they are. Baseball needs a little fire and passion. You jack a ball 400' into the stands, go ahead and stare at it for 3 seconds.

Leury Garcia jacked it 400' in the stands. Can't wait for pitchers doing end zone dances when the ball gets flipped around the infield after a K.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I don't think they are. Baseball needs a little fire and passion. You jack a ball 400' into the stands, go ahead and stare at it for 3 seconds.

Leury Garcia jacked it 400' in the stands. Can't wait for pitchers doing end zone dances when the ball gets flipped around the infield after a K.

Bwahahahaha! Now that would be sweet. Giolito rumba! 10 times per game con musica Cubana.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:10 pm 
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Sooooooooooooooo glad Machado and Harper ended up somewhere else.

Machado would be death to that clubhouse with all of the young talent coming up.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:45 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Great, I couldn't care less. I truly do not think a 31 year old is going to get a six year deal north of $160mil though, unless he puts up HOF type numbers as I said.



The Sox need to fix their bullpen for 2020. Colome has had a pretty good year, but outside of Bummer the rest of the pen has been trash for MANY seasons.


Marshall has been good and Colome has had a great year.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:21 pm 
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As much as it would have been cool to see them land an elite free agent, is paying a baseball player $300M+ who bats 4-5 times a game really worth it, even if they are really good? They are well positioned, assuming health, to break out next season. Looking forward to what they do (or don't do) this off-season.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:44 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I don't think they are. Baseball needs a little fire and passion. You jack a ball 400' into the stands, go ahead and stare at it for 3 seconds.

Leury Garcia jacked it 400' in the stands. Can't wait for pitchers doing end zone dances when the ball gets flipped around the infield after a K.

This is nonsense, of course. A single K isn’t nearly as valuable as a HR but pitchers routinely fist pump and otherwise celebrate high leverage K’s and have been all my life. I’ve never been a baseball guy but I’ve watched a shitload of baseball games in my life and I’ve never understood that double standard

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:58 am 
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Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:29 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.


The way I look at it, Jimenez ended up being the replacement for Harper in the line-up. Another outfield hitter would be helpful but it does not require a big money contract to achieve. Bring in a left handed hitting veteran for a couple of years who can play a decent right field and that would be all that is necessary. The huge need is for two starting pitchers. Preferably left handed starting pitchers.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:32 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.

They knew they had no shot because he had a cat named Wrigley.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:58 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.

They knew they had no shot because he had a cat named Wrigley.

Conversely they thought they had Machado because they signed his family and friends !

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:02 am 
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The Hawk wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.


The way I look at it, Jimenez ended up being the replacement for Harper in the line-up. Another outfield hitter would be helpful but it does not require a big money contract to achieve. Bring in a left handed hitting veteran for a couple of years who can play a decent right field and that would be all that is necessary. The huge need is for two starting pitchers. Preferably left handed starting pitchers.


They could have afforded to do both

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:11 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I don't think they are. Baseball needs a little fire and passion. You jack a ball 400' into the stands, go ahead and stare at it for 3 seconds.

Leury Garcia jacked it 400' in the stands. Can't wait for pitchers doing end zone dances when the ball gets flipped around the infield after a K.

This is nonsense, of course. A single K isn’t nearly as valuable as a HR but pitchers routinely fist pump and otherwise celebrate high leverage K’s and have been all my life. I’ve never been a baseball guy but I’ve watched a shitload of baseball games in my life and I’ve never understood that double standard


This is nonsense, of course. Pitcher's fist pump isn't anywhere near a bat flip, followed by a pirouette, followed by the multi staggered step before each base, followed with a double point to the sky, ending with the slow walk to the dugout with the orchestrated high five fist bump dance routine with every player in the dugout.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:46 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.

Wanting Machado was to bet against Moncada and Madrigal, it was always the fault in the org's feeling on this matter. They were out on Harper in December, even though he was always the better player and better value.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.

Wanting Machado was to bet against Moncada and Madrigal, it was always the fault in the org's feeling on this matter. They were out on Harper in December, even though he was always the better player and better value.


Can you imagine a defensive IF with Madrigal, Machado and Moncada with Anderson in RF? Nothing would get through defensively and the OF speed in CF and RF would be off the charts.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:28 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Many people said it at the time that Harper was the guy the should have pursued more vigorously. Looking at their needs right now, that couldn't be more correct. They need a RF who bats L with power and high OBP.

If they had landed him all they would be looking for this off season is a big SP and a little BP help and they would be ready to contend.

Wanting Machado was to bet against Moncada and Madrigal, it was always the fault in the org's feeling on this matter. They were out on Harper in December, even though he was always the better player and better value.


Can you imagine a defensive IF with Madrigal, Machado and Moncada with Anderson in RF? Nothing would get through defensively and the OF speed in CF and RF would be off the charts.

Yea but is it any better offensively and how much is that overall difference worth? Certainly not $300m.

Now this money will mean nothing if they don't spend it elsewhere, and while I have no hope for a big free agent I do think missing Machado means that we keep Moncada, Giolito and Kopech.


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