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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:28 am 
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Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Beardown wrote:
I just love how you rank playoff losers as the worst in history. You are all thinking about the sting of losing playoff games/series. Cuz you have that memory. And they hurt bad.

But this team should have made the playoffs easily for the right to lose one. You just can't process the fact that this Cubs season was the worst cuz you don't have a memory of a bad playoff loss.

You just don't think properly.


Tell us how to think Beardown. TELL US!

You didn't read my entire paragraph up there. This team wasn't going to easily make the playoffs. Too many flaws. Schwarber? Inconsistent last year. Heyward? Fucking useless. Almora Jr.? Eh? Russell? Suspended. Zobrist? Old. That leaves Bryant, Baez, Contreras and Rizzo to carry the offense. I already explained the issues with the pitching staff. I'm sorry, but entering this season, I didn't think it would be that easy to make the playoffs.


Christ. Do you mention the Brewers huge flaws? Which were more then the Cubs. Do you mention the Cardinals flaws? Nope.

Every GM in baseball wouldn't trade the entire Cubs roster for the rosters of the Cardinals or Brewers. Especially the Brewers.

I win. As always, I'm the only one that knows it.


I don't care about the Brewers and Cardinals. The expectation of this team in 2017 for MANY was World Series. When the Dodgers whipped their ass sideways and stupid, the expectation for MANY in 2018 was to get back to the playoffs and make a run, which they failed miserably to do. Going into this year? Remember when PECOTA had them in 3rd place with 82 wins and every Cubs meatball went on social media and sports radio and said PECOTA is bullshit and sucks? And the team used it as a rallying cry? Amazingly, the Cubs right now have 82 wins and are in third place.

Disappointment levels are sourced from expectation levels. If you went into this season with such high expectations, you were misled. This team wasn't World Series or bust. It was "hey we spent a shit ton of money the past few years on useless free agents, made some good trades, made some bad trades, and now we can't spend any more to fix the obvious gaps." So, where they finished shouldn't have been a disappointment to you at the level of disappointment from the previous two seasons.

What was your expectation when the Cubs were in 1st place August 22nd? Were you figuring then "3rd place with 82 wins"?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:37 am 
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I was much more disappointed in '84 and '03.

This year's collapse was jaw dropping and head shakingly incredible. It just didn't have the gut punch that came with the other collapses. Starting in May, this team was just lost.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:45 am 
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Probably the 2003 team. With Prior and Wood as well as Zambrano and Clement and Sosa leading a strong hitting attack. I thought they had it all. Being in Atlanta for the deciding game 5, with Wood facing Hampton and seeing them clinch their first playoff series since 1908 was pretty special. I thought the Marlins would be a cake-walk. Still, it was a fabulous season. Just had a terribly unfortunate ending.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:47 am 
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It's plain to see 2016 was a fluke. Collapse has been and IS the foundation of this franchise.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:54 am 
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Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Beardown is a lot of fingers into the scotch.

If you go by Baseball Reference, here's their most similar player through their age

Lester- Ron Guidry (not a HoF)

Rizzo - Travis Hafner (not a HoF)

Baez - Junior Spivey (not a HoF)

Darvish - Josh Johnson (not a HoF)

The Boston closer guy that they got - Kenley Jansen (this is the only "could be")

Contreres - Aledmys Díaz (not a HoF)

Hendricks - Alex Wood (not a HoF)

Right. A LONG way to go...


WOW! When you put it that way, the Cubs really are a shit team. FIRE THEO!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:45 am 
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Maddon was distracted by his new restaurant column in the near future.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:51 am 
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Cubs - I wouldn't include 2018 or 2019 because the holes were glaringly obvious prior to the start of the season. these seasons were front office choke jobs.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:13 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Beardown wrote:
I just love how you rank playoff losers as the worst in history. You are all thinking about the sting of losing playoff games/series. Cuz you have that memory. And they hurt bad.

But this team should have made the playoffs easily for the right to lose one. You just can't process the fact that this Cubs season was the worst cuz you don't have a memory of a bad playoff loss.

You just don't think properly.


Tell us how to think Beardown. TELL US!

You didn't read my entire paragraph up there. This team wasn't going to easily make the playoffs. Too many flaws. Schwarber? Inconsistent last year. Heyward? Fucking useless. Almora Jr.? Eh? Russell? Suspended. Zobrist? Old. That leaves Bryant, Baez, Contreras and Rizzo to carry the offense. I already explained the issues with the pitching staff. I'm sorry, but entering this season, I didn't think it would be that easy to make the playoffs.


Christ. Do you mention the Brewers huge flaws? Which were more then the Cubs. Do you mention the Cardinals flaws? Nope.

Every GM in baseball wouldn't trade the entire Cubs roster for the rosters of the Cardinals or Brewers. Especially the Brewers.

I win. As always, I'm the only one that knows it.


I don't care about the Brewers and Cardinals. The expectation of this team in 2017 for MANY was World Series. When the Dodgers whipped their ass sideways and stupid, the expectation for MANY in 2018 was to get back to the playoffs and make a run, which they failed miserably to do. Going into this year? Remember when PECOTA had them in 3rd place with 82 wins and every Cubs meatball went on social media and sports radio and said PECOTA is bullshit and sucks? And the team used it as a rallying cry? Amazingly, the Cubs right now have 82 wins and are in third place.

Disappointment levels are sourced from expectation levels. If you went into this season with such high expectations, you were misled. This team wasn't World Series or bust. It was "hey we spent a shit ton of money the past few years on useless free agents, made some good trades, made some bad trades, and now we can't spend any more to fix the obvious gaps." So, where they finished shouldn't have been a disappointment to you at the level of disappointment from the previous two seasons.

What was your expectation when the Cubs were in 1st place August 22nd? Were you figuring then "3rd place with 82 wins"?


I wasn't expecting them to make the playoffs this year, so my expectation didn't really change. Don't get me wrong, I want them to win the World Series every year. But up through August, did they have one long win streak? I can't remember anything over 5 or 6 games? Past few years they were stringing together at least 10 and would do that one or two times during the season. Either the starter, bullpen or offense would have a collapse and they'd drop 2-4 games.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:16 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
I was much more disappointed in '84 and '03.

This year's collapse was jaw dropping and head shakingly incredible. It just didn't have the gut punch that came with the other collapses. Starting in May, this team was just lost.


It started even before then. First it was the crap with Russell. Then it was Carl Edwards Jr.'s pitching motion. Then it was wondering who was going to close if Morrow was still unable to go. Those bullpen failures early seemed to just set a tone.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:21 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Beardown is a lot of fingers into the scotch.

If you go by Baseball Reference, here's their most similar player through their age

Lester- Ron Guidry (not a HoF)

Rizzo - Travis Hafner (not a HoF)

Baez - Junior Spivey (not a HoF)

Darvish - Josh Johnson (not a HoF)

The Boston closer guy that they got - Kenley Jansen (this is the only "could be")

Contreres - Aledmys Díaz (not a HoF)

Hendricks - Alex Wood (not a HoF)

Right. A LONG way to go...


WOW! When you put it that way, the Cubs really are a shit team. FIRE THEO!


Hey, Guidry wasn't that bad a pitcher. 170-91? 3.29 ERA? Him and Lester are right in that mix of Oswalt, Saberhagen and Santana. Guys who will be borderline HoF'ers but definitely not sure fire bets.

In all seriousness, other than Bryant, I don't see any of these guys having the potential for HoF at this point (ignore my Ian Happ post from last year). Baez is going to look like complete shit as he ages and loses his bat speed. Contreras can't stay healthy; otherwise, he's the only other guy with a shot.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:13 am 
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Probably the only one alive (though Murph has mentioned this on occasion) who remembers this, the 1967 Sox lost 5 straight games to end the season and hand the AL title to Boston.

And if I recall, the painful part was that the Sox lost those 5 games to the awful KC Athletics and the perepetual loser Washington Senators.

Sox win those 5, the history of the world would have been different.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:34 pm 
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wouldn't it be easier the most satisfying season in Chicago sports history

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 pm 
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This has been a fitting tribute to honor the 50th anniversary of the '69 collapse.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:07 pm 
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I'll stand by my statement.

In a NL where 5 teams make the playoffs, this is the most disappointing season in Chicago sports history. Especially considering it was a shitty division. 3rd highest payroll in MLB? They don't get in? Can't get that last Wild Card spot?

Horrible season. Worst ever in Chicago sports history.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:34 am 
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Wanderer wrote:
Probably the only one alive (though Murph has mentioned this on occasion) who remembers this, the 1967 Sox lost 5 straight games to end the season and hand the AL title to Boston.

And if I recall, the painful part was that the Sox lost those 5 games to the awful KC Athletics and the perepetual loser Washington Senators.

Sox win those 5, the history of the world would have been different.

Team couldn't hit, right?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:54 am 
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tommy wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
Probably the only one alive (though Murph has mentioned this on occasion) who remembers this, the 1967 Sox lost 5 straight games to end the season and hand the AL title to Boston.

And if I recall, the painful part was that the Sox lost those 5 games to the awful KC Athletics and the perepetual loser Washington Senators.

Sox win those 5, the history of the world would have been different.

Team couldn't hit, right?


That is true -- they often used a pitcher, Gary Peters, as a pinch hitter.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:16 am 
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Gotta think 2004 Cubs rank somewhere up the list, at least in recent history. The heartbreak of 2003 only created so much legitimate hope for better prospects in 2004. On top of that you add Derrek Lee and Greg Maddux, then trade for Nomar mid-season. The middle of the lineup was insane: Lee, Ramirez, Sosa, Alou. Wood and Prior are in their primes, Zombrano is poised to break out (and he did) but then injuries and whatever else mean you don't even make the playoffs that year. Makes 2003 hurt that much more.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:46 am 
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Wanderer wrote:
Probably the only one alive (though Murph has mentioned this on occasion) who remembers this, the 1967 Sox lost 5 straight games to end the season and hand the AL title to Boston.

And if I recall, the painful part was that the Sox lost those 5 games to the awful KC Athletics and the perepetual loser Washington Senators.

Sox win those 5, the history of the world would have been different.


Damn, you’re old


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:27 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
I'll stand by my statement.

In a NL where 5 teams make the playoffs, this is the most disappointing season in Chicago sports history. Especially considering it was a shitty division. 3rd highest payroll in MLB? They don't get in? Can't get that last Wild Card spot?

Horrible season. Worst ever in Chicago sports history.


You can stand by two naked Mexican guys playing Parcheesi. You would still be dead wrong.

Payroll isn't a driver for expectations. ESPECIALLY when you know that money is in players that you weren't sure you could depend on this year.

Give this one up Beardown. I know you are on the decline with the loss of so many score hosts you stalked over the years, but this is getting to be kind of ridiculous even for you.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:12 pm 
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I like the new photo, Hoffy.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:26 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Gotta think 2004 Cubs rank somewhere up the list, at least in recent history. The heartbreak of 2003 only created so much legitimate hope for better prospects in 2004. On top of that you add Derrek Lee and Greg Maddux, then trade for Nomar mid-season. The middle of the lineup was insane: Lee, Ramirez, Sosa, Alou. Wood and Prior are in their primes, Zombrano is poised to break out (and he did) but then injuries and whatever else mean you don't even make the playoffs that year. Makes 2003 hurt that much more.


I wasn't around for 2004. What exactly happened that caused them to miss the playoffs?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:27 pm 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Gotta think 2004 Cubs rank somewhere up the list, at least in recent history. The heartbreak of 2003 only created so much legitimate hope for better prospects in 2004. On top of that you add Derrek Lee and Greg Maddux, then trade for Nomar mid-season. The middle of the lineup was insane: Lee, Ramirez, Sosa, Alou. Wood and Prior are in their primes, Zombrano is poised to break out (and he did) but then injuries and whatever else mean you don't even make the playoffs that year. Makes 2003 hurt that much more.


I wasn't around for 2004. What exactly happened that caused them to miss the playoffs?



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:36 pm 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Gotta think 2004 Cubs rank somewhere up the list, at least in recent history. The heartbreak of 2003 only created so much legitimate hope for better prospects in 2004. On top of that you add Derrek Lee and Greg Maddux, then trade for Nomar mid-season. The middle of the lineup was insane: Lee, Ramirez, Sosa, Alou. Wood and Prior are in their primes, Zombrano is poised to break out (and he did) but then injuries and whatever else mean you don't even make the playoffs that year. Makes 2003 hurt that much more.


I wasn't around for 2004. What exactly happened that caused them to miss the playoffs?


Injuries to Prior and Wood hurt a lot. They only pitched about 20 games each. 24 blown slaves from Borowski, Hawkins and others didn't help either. That last week or two was absolutely brutal baseball to watch.

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