Ending the policy of fining users for overdue materials. Nobody should be denied the opportunity for knowledge and leaning based on the inability to pay a fine on an item that they borrowed and eventually returned.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

Think of all the Library Policemen out of work now!

How will kids learn responsibility and consequences now!

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I remember when Blockbuster did this and it basically destroyed the company. Free books for everybody!

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That's the whole purpose behind a library, the books are free...

I'm kind of torn on this one. I generally agree with One Post's sentiment, but as someone who actually uses the Library and has had to wait for books I wanted to read to be returned, I wonder how this policy will play out in a practical sense.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Why require books to be returned at all then?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm the same way but I'd imagine most people still return the books in a relatively timely manner.

But who knows.

Maybe the only thing keeping society together was the library fines.

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You know it's weird that you mention this. When I lived in Chicago and was checking a book out of the library, I found a book that was incorrectly shelved. I thought about how terrible that could have been that in theory because the book was shelved incorrectly it might never be checked out or read again. So I inquired about volunteering at the library in some capacity to shelve books or manually walk the shelves to identify incorrectly shelved books.

I was told that volunteering for such a position isn't allowed due to union rules/contracts. Look, I'm not a super pro or anti union guy, but I thought it was disheartening that someone can't volunteer at the library for certain things because of union rules. I mean maybe the guy I talked to was just bullshitting me and wanted to get rid of me (a possibility), but I didn't get that vibe.

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost

So other people can drink deeply from the knowledge and wisdom of that book.

There is no prohibition from checking out that same book again, so you can read it as many times as you would like if you are so inclined.

Why not give the option to never return the book though? The books are free. You could check it out again if you wanted.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That is pretty shitty that if you want to help out, you can't because of union rules.

Though I guess I could see Big Library cutting employees and relying on volunteers.

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Hey, you ever check out that "Laughing in the Hills" book from the CPL (Washington Library) that I told you about, if you do I will probably have been the last person to check it out. Zero degrees of separation, very spooky.

Yeah JORR, as a vigorous library patron I understand the discomfort of waiting on a book that is checked out. That said, I think most people that use the library try to be respectful of the people that might be queued up behind them waiting for a book. So I know I try to get a popular book back to the library when there is an immediate hold placed on it, and I think other people do likewise. That's why this policy is not aimed so much at getting people to return books quicker or more often (although the latter will likely be accomplished) but stopping the practice of locking someone out of using the resources of the library because they owe $13.50 in fines, and just might not have the money to pay it off.

I'd be fine with doing away with fines if Rocco was allowed to come to your house and "collect" the overdue book. Otherwise, MANY of these books are just going to vanish. But yeah, genius idea. I'm sure this whole thing will work out great.

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How could someone else drink deeply from the knowledge and wisdom of that book it it was never returned by the first borrower?

exactly. What is this world coming to

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Obviously you didn't read the article. Not surprising.

If you have an item that has not been returned and that is the cause of your fine, then you will still be prohibited from checking our subsequent items until the unreturned item has been returned, or you have paid the "replacement" fine.

If you read the article (which you obviously didn't) you would understand that the policy of doing away with fines (which prohibit subsequent borrowings) only applies to essentially fines that were for late returned items. So there won't be any more book stealing because of this, in fact there quite possibly could be less because people will be more motivated to return those items they otherwise might not have wanted to on account of the overdue fines. Sorry you are totally fucking wrong about everything you have posted in this thread.

Read more and post less dipshit.

I actually had forgotten. I'm going to request that they send it over to Independence for me now.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

The library is saying most Chicagoans taking books out are too stupid and undisciplined to look at the due date . Either bring it back or extend it. So fuck it.

Yeah, I thought so too. I framed the volunteer question to the guy relating to maybe volunteering 1 night a week or every other week so it wasn't like anyone would be out of any job because some 28 year old kid walked the shelves for three hours and found five books that were shelved improperly. It just seemed really silly, depressing, and disappointing that I couldn't volunteer.

That's your takeaway from this?

I think most library users are extremely conscientious and respectful of the process that makes a library work. It's pretty simple, you borrow and then return, I think the overwhelming majority of library patrons respect this system and make all efforts to abide by it. I think the best evidence of this would be to walk the stacks at the Harold Washington Library, there are a lot of books there that have been checked out millions of times, and have been returned millions of times.

I think what the policy says is that the segment of the Chicago population that benefits most from library services are low income people. These low income people are a population that is disproportionately impacted by things like: job insecurity, transportation insecurity, child care insecurity, housing insecurity, etc. These are things that easily could cause returning a book on time to be missed, which results in fines. These low income people are going to be least likely to have the money to pay the fines, and thus they are locked out of the library system. So the prior fine system was essentially locking out the Chicago citizens who most needed to use the library and benefits from its resources.

The library is saying no longer will we prohibit low income people from drinking from the knowledge and wisdom of books simply because they are economically disadvantaged compared to other library users.

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I am amazed libraries are still a thing

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

didnt read the article, came for the seinfeld reference

what about hot items that are in high demand... if there is a waitlist for an item and someone keeps it well past due date... that isnt fair

Right. So those poor disenfranchised people can find the time to take out the book initially but not the time to actually return it at any point during the next 14 days .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

What a strange thing to think--and then say.

If you have an item checked out and are holding it past the due date, then your account is delinquent for an unreturned item, and there would be a fine for an unreturned item. Therefore you would have a fine for an unreturned item, which would prohibit you from borrowing other items. So your options are to return the book and have the ability to check out other items or keep the item that is in demand.

I'd make the point that it was no more or less fair if someone kept the item beyond the due date and then paid a fine because of it. Sure I guess the library gained revenue, but the unfairness wasn't against the library it was against the person next in queue.

I think the point of the policy change is that fine or not, people who are going to return a book late are probably going to do so, but removing the fine once the item is returned doesn't prohibit the delinquent borrower from using other library resources once the delinquent item is returned.

I guess that's kind of why being insecure in many of the essential things is a hard lot in life. Checking out something can, almost by definition, be done when it is entirely convenient and possible for anyone (subject to library hours), but a person prone to compromised situations might have a hard time meeting artificially imposed deadlines such as return dates on a library book.

It's easy to look at life through your eyes and question why someone can't return a library book on time.

What if you are a 10 year old kid who has to depend on your family to get you to the library to return a book? Maybe mom and dad, or mom, or dad, or whoever takes care of them isn't the most dependable person. That sucks, but what sucks worse is for that kid to have to cough up $15 bucks if he wants to check out the latest from the "Magic Tree House" series.

Yeah, most rural Missourians should have burned theirs down by now.

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