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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:46 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
I wouldn't say the Right "admires" the Left. The Right uses the "They're all out to take what's yours and give it to some minority moocher" talk to stir the fear pot and drum up support.

Also, who's talking about taking anyone's vote away? Other than the GOP'ers pushing gerrymandered districts while making it more and more difficult for certain "disenfranchised" groups to make it to the polling sites...of course.



Are you suggesting only Republicans gerrymander? The act is named after a Democrat, for God's sake.


Come on! That's not entirely true and it is worse than saying that Republicans aren't racist because their party freed the slaves.



It was a glib comment but the point stands- gerrymandering is a bipartisan pursuit.


You're right. Republicans are just better at "dirty" politics. Democrats are like "No fair! We would never have gone that far." Republicans just laugh and turn a population disadvantage into an advantage.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
What is really funny is all the Dems are coming out and railing on the president for not letting them know before it took place? I didn't see them fucking with the previous guy when the big raid went down and he got Bin Ladin.


Which Dems are railing on the president for not letting them know before it took place?


The last guy informed all of the necessary people. I don't think it's that big of a deal but Trump only told a couple of Republicans because he believed that Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats may alert the terrorists. The Democrats in the Gang of 8 or whatever the bipartisan's group name is mildly complained about it. Nothing more or less than that happened.


Well that's silly.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
What is really funny is all the Dems are coming out and railing on the president for not letting them know before it took place? I didn't see them fucking with the previous guy when the big raid went down and he got Bin Ladin.


Which Dems are railing on the president for not letting them know before it took place?


Pelosi to start

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
A few things here. I don't know if the ongoing coup attempt against the current president is a "right wing talking point" or not. What I do know is that it is a fact. The corporate media that is staffed with former spies is desperately trying to deny it, of course. I'm surprised that you suddenly accept the idea that the same people who started a war in Iraq and are constantly ratcheting up tensions with Russians are beyond reproach and could not possibly have done what they obviously did. I have to think that new position is influenced strictly by your distaste for Donald Trump.


The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?

Quote:
Second, I was not referring to the hearings currently being held in the House in an attempt to remove the president for some crime no one can actually identify specifically. There is vague constitutional authority for what they're doing regardless of how bad it appears to the American public, most of whom would prefer that their government not conduct its business in the dark. But it's not a real impeachment. We both know that. It's designed to wound the president to the point where whatever mediocrity they run against him has a slight chance to win in 2020. This is the kind of basic political maneuvering that has been done since before the Constitution was even drafted. It doesn't shock me.


You are under the impression that an official needs to have committed a crime to be impeached?

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The Benghazi hearings were certainly political, but a little bit different in that an American ambassador was killed. Maybe you think a ham-handed phone call to the Ukrainian president is similar. I don't believe most people do. And a most important difference- Hillary Clinton was not elected.


You have made a habit of excusing Trump's corruption because it is brazen. The more reasonable position is to recognize that its brazenness is what makes it inexcusable.


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The Left invented the political word "disenfranchisement". Do you think removing the president for reasons that no one can actually clearly articulate disenfranchises the voters? And when he is reelected many will be even angrier and hate their fellow citizens for voting the way they did even more than they hate them now. Does that mean we should take away their votes?


Are the reasons for the push to impeach Trump unclear, or do you simply disagree with them? It's not difficult to understand why Trump will be impeached.

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The secret court I was referring to was the FISA court that authorized spying on a political campaign. And if your next question was if I ever railed about FISA courts in the past, the answer is yes. I'm sure I've always been as strongly against the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act as you used to be. I don't know if my posts on the matter still exist as they were probably prior to the changes in the board.


So when did I support the PATRIOT Act?

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?


I wouldn't say they're behind it. They're all pretty old. I think a couple of them may take their meals through a straw. But if you're asking me if I think they support the removal of Donald Trump, my answer is an unequivocal yes. Their clique was temporarily successful in foisting Bolton on Trump. That obviously didn't succeed. These are people who want constant tension with Russia and more war in the Middle East. Trump doesn't seem inclined to give it to them.

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You are under the impression that an official needs to have committed a crime to be impeached?


No, a president can be impeached for almost anything. All it takes is a vote in the House. Unfortunately for those who want to use such a method to remove Trump, the votes just aren't there. And even if they were, the stomach for such an operation clearly isn't. So they're going this quasi-impeachment route.

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You have made a habit of excusing Trump's corruption because it is brazen. The more reasonable position is to recognize that its brazenness is what makes it inexcusable.


You'll have to provide some specific examples of such corruption before I can address them.

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Are the reasons for the push to impeach Trump unclear, or do you simply disagree with them? It's not difficult to understand why Trump will be impeached.


Could you explain those reasons then?

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So when did I support the PATRIOT Act?


You don't seem very upset that the FISA court that was created as part of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act was used to spy on the rival campaign of the sitting president's endorsed candidate. I'm sure if Donald Trump's administration had done the same you'd be howling about corruption.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:03 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?

The Iraq war was an example of Bi-Partison politics at it's worse. Yes, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others were the faces for it. There were plenty of Good old boys with (D) that were equally complicit and banked off of it. It could have been stopped....there was plenty of logical arguments on the floor against it. the (R) and (D) were in this one together.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:09 am 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?

The Iraq war was an example of Bi-Partison politics at it's worse. Yes, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others were the faces for it. There were plenty of Good old boys with (D) that were equally complicit and banked off of it. It could have been stopped....there was plenty of logical arguments on the floor against it. the (R) and (D) were in this one together.


Good point Delaney.

Blaming the Iraq war on neo-cons is a pathetically one sided media narrative that only the intellectually challenged repeat.

The Iraq War was bi-partisan American Jingoism on full display. The same can be said for the Afgan War as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:18 am 
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:shock: When did JORR institute the BM response technique?

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:28 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?

The Iraq war was an example of Bi-Partison politics at it's worse. Yes, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others were the faces for it. There were plenty of Good old boys with (D) that were equally complicit and banked off of it. It could have been stopped....there was plenty of logical arguments on the floor against it. the (R) and (D) were in this one together.


Good point Delaney.

Blaming the Iraq war on neo-cons is a pathetically one sided media narrative that only the intellectually challenged repeat.

The Iraq War was bi-partisan American Jingoism on full display. The same can be said for the Afgan War as well.


This truly is quite the revisionist and extremely partisan way of looking at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:31 am 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
They left want to take away peoples' votes by removing the Electoral College.

biiiiiiiiiig brain

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:43 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?

The Iraq war was an example of Bi-Partison politics at it's worse. Yes, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others were the faces for it. There were plenty of Good old boys with (D) that were equally complicit and banked off of it. It could have been stopped....there was plenty of logical arguments on the floor against it. the (R) and (D) were in this one together.


Good point Delaney.

Blaming the Iraq war on neo-cons is a pathetically one sided media narrative that only the intellectually challenged repeat.

The Iraq War was bi-partisan American Jingoism on full display. The same can be said for the Afgan War as well.


This truly is quite the revisionist and extremely partisan way of looking at it.



Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:50 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?

The Iraq war was an example of Bi-Partison politics at it's worse. Yes, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others were the faces for it. There were plenty of Good old boys with (D) that were equally complicit and banked off of it. It could have been stopped....there was plenty of logical arguments on the floor against it. the (R) and (D) were in this one together.


Good point Delaney.

Blaming the Iraq war on neo-cons is a pathetically one sided media narrative that only the intellectually challenged repeat.

The Iraq War was bi-partisan American Jingoism on full display. The same can be said for the Afgan War as well.


Aluminum tubes, yellow cake uranium, satellite photos, burning intelligence agents in the field. All now indefensible lies and misdeeds, played out on a world stage to aid big bidness like Halliburton, Boeing & ExxonMobil. All reliably platinum patrons of the republican party. (and bronze sponsors of the Democratic party as well)

It WAS primarily a neo-con hit job on the rest of us.

But you know that.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:52 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
The Iraq war was brought to fruition by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and other neoconservative intellectuals. They are also behind the coup you are alleging exists?

The Iraq war was an example of Bi-Partison politics at it's worse. Yes, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others were the faces for it. There were plenty of Good old boys with (D) that were equally complicit and banked off of it. It could have been stopped....there was plenty of logical arguments on the floor against it. the (R) and (D) were in this one together.


Good point Delaney.

Blaming the Iraq war on neo-cons is a pathetically one sided media narrative that only the intellectually challenged repeat.

The Iraq War was bi-partisan American Jingoism on full display. The same can be said for the Afgan War as well.


Aluminum tubes, yellow cake uranium, satellite photos, burning intelligence agents in the field. All now indefensible lies and misdeeds, played out on a world stage to aid big bidness like Halliburton, Boeing & ExxonMobil. All reliably platinum patrons of the republican party. (and bronze sponsors of the Democratic party as well)

It WAS primarily a neo-con hit job on the rest of us.

But you know that.


It was bi-partisan.

Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:52 am 
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Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:54 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


I wouldn't expect you to ever blame yourself denis.

It's always the poor peoples fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:55 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


I wouldn't expect you to ever blame yourself denis.

It's always the poor peoples fault.


Interesting take. I believe GW is rich.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:58 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


I wouldn't expect you to ever blame yourself denis.

It's always the poor peoples fault.


Interesting take. I believe GW is rich.


Some of us find war to be repugnant, and rarely necessary.

The Iraq War was both.

Sorry you chose not to join those who didn't need to be convinced otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:04 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


I wouldn't expect you to ever blame yourself denis.

It's always the poor peoples fault.


Interesting take. I believe GW is rich.


Some of us find war to be repugnant, and rarely necessary.

The Iraq War was both.

Sorry you chose not to join those who didn't need to be convinced otherwise.


Yeap I am sorry too as I voted for GW twice. Luckily, I found political religion and started voting for more isolationist folks like Ron Paul. I didn’t vote for McCain or Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:10 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Some of us find war to be repugnant, and rarely necessary.

The Iraq War was both.

Sorry you chose not to join those who didn't need to be convinced otherwise.


And this is another thing that I hold Obama shamefully accountable for. He rightly should have called for a Congressional vote, instead of just relying on the haggard AUMF. But of course if he had, every republican, blue dog democrat and a sizable chunk of the media would've immediately called him an enemy of the troops, un-American and worthy of impeachment.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:12 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


If it looks like shit....and it smells like shit....it's gotta be....shit. Amazing how my 30 year old self at the time could sense it was a load of horse shit.

this discussion has been had on numerous threads before. The facts don't change, nor do they lie. On one hand the Dems loved to poke fun at W for being a total buffoon, yet he was smart enough to trick them all into voting for the Iraq war. Bullshit. This was politics at it's best. Votes matter and they don't lie. Complicit....all of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:15 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Some of us find war to be repugnant, and rarely necessary.

The Iraq War was both.

Sorry you chose not to join those who didn't need to be convinced otherwise.


And this is another thing that I hold Obama shamefully accountable for. He rightly should have called for a Congressional vote, instead of just relying on the haggard AUMF. But of course if he had, every republican, blue dog democrat and a sizable chunk of the media would've immediately called him an enemy of the troops, un-American and worthy of impeachment.


Don't excuse men in leadership positions who lack the fortitude to do or say what is right.

They provide cover to the thousands that follow who try and blame their own decisions on others rather than just saying "I was wrong too."

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:17 am 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


If it looks like shit....and it smells like shit....it's gotta be....shit. Amazing how my 30 year old self at the time could sense it was a load of horse shit.

this discussion has been had on numerous threads before. The facts don't change, nor do they lie. On one hand the Dems loved to poke fun at W for being a total buffoon, yet he was smart enough to trick them all into voting for the Iraq war. Bullshit. This was politics at it's best. Votes matter and they don't lie. Complicit....all of them.


Iraq had already attacked a neighbor.
They were under a UN inspection program.
They were not allowing the inspectors to visit certain facilities.

Then the government was pushing hard on a narrative that Iraq had WMD.

I am glad you were so smart to see it all. I was duped. I admit it.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
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denisdman wrote:
[

I am glad you were so smart to see it all. I was duped. I admit it.


Delaney and secreast came out of the womb knowing eveything. that's why they dont' have to read newspapers.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
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Hatchetman wrote:
denisdman wrote:
[

I am glad you were so smart to see it all. I was duped. I admit it.


Delaney and secreast came out of the womb knowing eveything. that's why they dont' have to read newspapers.

I won't speak for Seacrest....I'm just fully aware of what our Government is capable of. The blind faith of MANY is truly...unbelievable.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
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Hatchetman wrote:
denisdman wrote:
[

I am glad you were so smart to see it all. I was duped. I admit it.


Delaney and secreast came out of the womb knowing eveything. that's why they dont' have to read newspapers.


I just came out being willing to listen to actual soldiers describe war and its effects.

Try it sometime. It's far more helpful and powerful then just bleating out whatever the media tells you to believe. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:27 am 
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denisdman wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


If it looks like shit....and it smells like shit....it's gotta be....shit. Amazing how my 30 year old self at the time could sense it was a load of horse shit.

this discussion has been had on numerous threads before. The facts don't change, nor do they lie. On one hand the Dems loved to poke fun at W for being a total buffoon, yet he was smart enough to trick them all into voting for the Iraq war. Bullshit. This was politics at it's best. Votes matter and they don't lie. Complicit....all of them.


Iraq had already attacked a neighbor.
They were under a UN inspection program.
They were not allowing the inspectors to visit certain facilities.

Then the government was pushing hard on a narrative that Iraq had WMD.

I am glad you were so smart to see it all. I was duped. I admit it.


They did have them. It's historical fact that Sadaam used them against the Kurds. Reagan welcomed him to the White House after he did it.

And put them victim crap back in your pocket.

War should be a last resort every time. We are not the world's police force.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:43 am 
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WMDs were one of the thinnest excuses for invasion ever concocted. Figures Seacrest still hangs his hat on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:47 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
WMDs were one of the thinnest excuses for invasion ever concocted. Figures Seacrest still hangs his hat on it.


Are you that fucking stupid? Seriously?

Seacrest wrote:
Some of us find war to be repugnant, and rarely necessary.

The Iraq War was both.


It figures you wouldn't understand plain English in an attempt to get someone to like your post.

Here educate yourself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack

Dope.

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 Post subject: Re: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:47 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Welp, my recollection is that the Bush administration used faulty intel to sell the American public and the United Nations (Powell presented there if my memory serves). So yes, there was bipartisan and dman support for the war at the outset. But then it ended up being based on lies or mistakes, so we effectively invaded a sovereign nation on a false pretense.

How can I blame Democrats or myself when we were all sold on faulty intel?


I wouldn't expect you to ever blame yourself denis.

It's always the poor peoples fault.


Interesting take. I believe GW is rich.


Some of us find war to be repugnant, and rarely necessary.

The Iraq War was both.

Sorry you chose not to join those who didn't need to be convinced otherwise.


Again revisionist. Republican operatives questioned the Patriotism of any and everyone that disagreed with them about the War.

Dems were cowardly yes. Complicit no. That war never would have occurred if Bush were not President.

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