It would take more than that and who the hell would play C for us? Gooden? Gray?

I dont think we should give up Noah, his value isnt high enough and hes more valuable to us than he would be to most other teams.

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Derrick Coleman is probably closer. My Brand comparison partly comes because I could see Beasley putting up a quiet 20/10. Elton Brand always strikes me as a player that puts up good numbers but is never considered to be dominating a game. You almost don't realize that Brand is doing as well as he is.

I see Brand being better than Derrick Coleman and I also see Beasley being better than Derrick Coleman. I can't put Beasley up to a level of Tim Duncan or even probably Karl Malone so Elton Brand is the closest one I can get to. It's not a perfect comparison I know.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Beasley won't be a PF, he will be more like a Antawn Jamison. A Tweener

That'd be exciting, but damn: talk about a youth movement.

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To me, the question is this: Will Beasley be good enough to be a #1 or #2 on a championship team? If the answere is yes, then you should have no compunctions about trading Deng, who is at best a #3.

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I'm ready to burn this roster down. It's full of role players and devoid of stars. Pax has built his team by focusing on the periphery rather than the core; his thinking needs to be reversed.

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I would make the trade because I am looking for flat out, stone-cold killers. With his athleticism and broad range of skills, Beasley can be such a player, in my opinion (as can Rose). If I have Rose and Beasley on my team, I will have the cornerstones for my championship team in place. The question of who will play center is thus somewhat peripheral. That position could be addressed by trading Hinrich and Gordon or through next year's draft when a good low post player might be available to them, especially since a team starting Rose and Beasley is unlikely to make the playoffs. I would fully advocate sucking for a year to develop Rose and Beasley (and Thabo and Tyrus, to see what they can do) and then getting another reasonable draft pick next year to acquire my third core player.

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Yes, Derrick Coleman was a phenomenally talented player. If he had a better work ethic and less of an ego, he could've been an all-time great player. While I don't think Beasely is as talented as Coleman, his game is similar. And if Beasley has the work ethic that Coleman lacked, he will be a very, very good player--and very quickly, too.

As for the Brand talk, there is just no similarity between the two players. As far as I can tell, Beasley's game is way more diverse than Brand's and Beasley possesses an elite level of athleticism and explosiveness that Brand lacks.

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Yeah, I'm ready to tear the roster down as well; I've already said I'm of the mind that this team is not a tweak-candidate. That said, it's a difference between blowing it up and bringing veterans in and starting over with two 19 year olds. You do that, and you're on a 5 year plan. It'd be fine with me, but I wonder how most would feel about that.

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You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I'm a Bulls season ticket holder, and if blowing it up and waiting five more years means I'll never again have to watch Hinrich, Duhon, Thomas, Gray etc, it'll be worth it. However, Gordon and Deng are your only chips worth anything, and that's likely the 2 they'll keep

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Beasley seems like GrandMaMa Larry Johnson to me - athletic, undersized scorer/rebounder.

Probably make a real good NBA player but might be prone to break down physically after a few years of being down low. Seems like he'd be a nice player to have but not a dominant guy. However, I only saw him play a limited number of times.

I'd rather they took Rose.

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You know me like that.

The more I think about it, my Brand comparison is a little off. I was looking at it on a pure numbers comparison.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, I'd rather have Rose, too, but I think Beasley will be a very good NBA player and thus advocate trading to obtain both Beasley and Rose.

I like the Larry Johnson comparison, especially prior to his back injuries. Beasley strikes me as more athletic and more skilled, though.

Good post, Noisy. You've bought yourself a little time off of my foes list.

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I get your point, but it doesnt effect mine. Noah sure as hell wont be a deal-breaker to any team trying to deal Beasley. Therefore, I would move Hinrich or Gordon as you suggested instead of Noah. Gooden's expiring contract would also be more valuable than Noah. I'd rather move Tyrus instead of Noah also, and he would probably be at least as valuable as Noah. Noah is our ONLY Center. Gray isnt even necessarily a decent backup, let alone a starter. I think Noah will be Chandler-like guy in 2 years so I dont think its worth dealing him right now when his value isnt much.

Also I get your point about worrying about the peripheral instead of the core, but why cant you worry about both? All great GM's do, see RC Buford.

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I guess I'm not sure what your point was. If it's that you wouldn't want to trade Noah to acquire Beasley, then I agree. If it's that you wouldn't trade Noah to acquire Beasley, then I vehemently disagree. The Bulls have no core players, and thus everyone's for sale as far as I am concerned.

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Noah's attitude is going to be his biggest problem. Noah seemingly is a head case. I'm not talking about the off season stuff but how he comported himself throughout the season.

I don't think he'll become Ron Artest, but if Noah was as big of an idiot his rookie year then it's only going to get worse.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Obviously I WOULD trade Noah for Beasley if it came down to that. My point was two-fold.

1.) Noah is more valuable to us then most other teams. He has less value then Gordon, Hinrich, Tyrus, Gooden, etc. I would rather give up one of those guys, because we are deep at all their positions. Noah is our only Center. So therefore, it would be unnecessary to trade him and therefore we shouldnt. If Riley was erratic enough to demand we include him, I guess I would but that wouldnt make sense for the Heat.

2.) A good GM doesnt just focus on core and not role players. Core players will do nothing for you if you cant fill out the rest of the roster, look at KG in Minnesota.

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I very much disagree. I think he has a fantastic attitude. The coach he had an argument with and got suspended for, is one of his closest mentors on the team now. This kid gives it 100% every single second he is out there a la Iverson. He deeply cares about winning. He has consistently shown the willingness to put team ahead of self. I love his attitude and how he comports himself.

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Just wait. He doesn't know when to shut his mouth and is going to be an unpopular figure in the locker room. I predict that there will be yearly drama with him like we saw during the season. He will be too willing to criticize teammates and his mouth will get him in trouble.

His attitude could be a great asset, but he will be unable to control it when he should. Last year's troubles are not solved.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Like you said, I guess we'll see. I love the fact he called out a washed up, cancerous player in Ben Wallace. He's not intimidated by anyone and he calls out his teammates if they arent playing hard and arent playing to win. I like that. If that rubs players the wrong way, I dont want those players on the team.

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1)Noah may be our only center, but he's not a particularly good one. As I said, I would prefer to keep him but wouldn't care too much if he had to be included in a trade for a player who I think will be significantly better.

2)Obviously any championship team needs core and periphery players. But before you can have role players, you need to have a core. Role players are guys who fill the gaps left open by the superstars. And KG's primary problem in Minnesota wasn't a lack of a supporting cast, as Jordan used to say; rather, it was that Minnesota only had one core player when two or three are needed for a championship.

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1)Noah may be our only center, but he's not a particularly good one. As I said, I would prefer to keep him but wouldn't care too much if he had to be included in a trade for a player who I think will be significantly better.

2)Obviously any championship team needs core and periphery players. But before you can have role players, you need to have a core. Role players are guys who fill the gaps left open by the superstars. And KG's primary problem in Minnesota wasn't a lack of a supporting cast, as Jordan used to say; rather, it was that Minnesota only had one core player when two or three are needed for a championship.

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95% of the time, his attitude will be a great benefit. It's that other 5% that is going to screw him over. It's a stupid decision to bash the team in the media as a rookie. Even if he's right, he's got to pay his dues.

His attitude could be his best asset, but I see him going overboard one too many times and it losing all respect he has from his teammates.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, being pepetually late for practices doesn't seem like much of an asset to me. Based on what I've heard, he seems like quite a hypocrite. He criticizes others for their lack of effort but is hardly a role model himself.

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Noah is a good Center. He had a very decent rookie season. He was technically more efficient then Horford and Durant. With 30 minutes a game he will average 10-10 with a couple blocks and a steal. You cant write a player off in the NBA after a rookie season, especially one in which he exceeded his critics expectations.

I still dont think you are getting my point on the role players. You dont NEED to have core players in place before role players. We have alot of role players in place right now. I think Noah will probably become almost as good as Tyson Chandler. We shouldnt trade him. We should get rid of some other guys and keep him. He will not be a deal-breaker in any blockbuster trade at this point.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Can you show me a link to this stuff you've heard? I've never heard people call him out for his effort. Thats his best asset. He seems like a very selfless, do all the little things guy. I dont remember hearing him being perpetually late for practices and not giving effort. I've always heard the opposite.

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To rock my soul

Good thoughts, guys. Rose is my guy with the #1 pick. I'm not convinced that at 6-7, Beasley will be a flat out stone cold killer. I don't think he will be a consistent double-double guy, but he doesn't have to be to still be the best inside scorer on this team, as currently constructed. There is nobody on this team I'd rather have than Beasley. But that would be only after taking Rose first. The challenge is convincing Miami to take Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, whatever package of players they want...for Beasley. Why would they do that? Would that make the Heat better than taking Beasley? Doubtful. Hell, I'd trade two of those three guys for Mayo.

Riley is notorious for hating to rebuild. He's constantly in the win-now mode. I could see him taking the right package for the 2 pick, especially since he doesnt like Beasley as much as others do supposedly. We would obviously need to take Mark Blount back. Like Nas has been harping on though, Pax has shown an absolute unwillingness to pull the trigger on a major trade. Like Bill Simmons says, he's not a GM in the National Basketball Association, but the No Balls Association.

I dont want Mayo. Im not convinced he has the decision making ability nor the maturity to develop into the Gil Arenas many make him out to be. Also Im not sold on his defense.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Pax is gonna take Rose. No doubt.

If Pax if feeling uncertain he can rest assured by using the scouting ability of Pat Riley.

From all reports Riley likes Mayo better than Beasley. That's who he's gonna take.

So, if you respect Riley, then Rose is certainly better than Beasley if Riley deems Mayo better than Beasley. Why wouldn't you respect Riley?

Brian Hanley talks about Noah's attitude problems quite frequently on the Score. He is also the Bulls beat writer for the Sun-Times. According to Hanley, perpetual tardiness was a big problem for Noah last season.

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