it did for me. going back 20 years ago when I was in college....I was floored with how many people I knew didn't have to get a job on campus. Just as I was amazed last year when my son went to school and so many students just "had to have a car at school". No....everything is walking distance...no, you don't.

I get really torn on the student debt issue. People should know better, but at the same time, the forced loans and forced narrative of "you have to go to college" is incredibly strong and causes MANY to this is just what you have to do.

I gave my son a chance to go away to school. He blew it. He worked his ass off last summer and paid for this semester at Junior college. He still is not doing anywhere near what he has to do. he gets more chance next semester at Junior college to earn going back to to a university. Obviously there are plenty that go o school and do fine, but it seems like there's a ton his age that are completely clueless in what it takes to go to school successfully. Regardless....I won't let him take it a bunch of loans for school and bury himself. I don't see any kind of forgiveness happening.

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Anyone have the backstory on who was the kingpin starting the downhill snowball thing that is this crisis?

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Elections have consequences.

We've been talking about variations on this theme for over two years on this board. Thank you for putting the meat on the bones of this conversation. With Spiral and One Post taking the baton so admirably.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Millenials.

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Boomers

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Gen X

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

To the poor souls who were taken advantage of by the predatory practices that allow them to attend college

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

One of the first things my oldest told me when he'd been on campus a few weeks was how many kids had high end cars and lots of cash. Especially the students from mainland China. He'd fortunately gotten some increasing scholarship money, but knew that I didn't have the extra cash to support a big campus lifestyle. He got a job working at the campus chain of convenience stores, and appreciated eating the premade sub sandwiches that went unsold each day in addition to his meal plan. And made eight semesters more than enough.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I remember having this conversation with my dad 25 plus years ago when I became aware of the costs of college. They can raise it as high as they want to, someone will a,ways before able to pay it and they can use grants, work study or student loans to fill the gap for everyone else. It’s gotten insane.

Which is why free college for everybody (I think) is a bad idea. You have to value it and people tend not to value free stuff, but they value the hell out of something they worked for. Or they have a work ethic or have been taught to have a work ethic. I did not work my first time around but I knew the sacrifices my parents made and felt it was my job to do well in school. I'm also self motivated, success is powerful for me. I can't believe the amount of students that don't care or put minimum effort in. It can't feel good. How do people not catch on how to be successful or not want to be? You have to be responsible for yourself, failure isn't always somebody else's fault.

I had 3 fairly easy classes and 2 challenging ones. I showed up early, prepared, and happy for all of them. I think one of my instructors graded me easier on my practical because of it. People 20 years younger were all I'm tired this is so hard. Really? I'm way older, worked about 15 hours a week cleaning, had 5 classes, and ran a household dinners cleaning shuffling people around. You rolled out of bed and can't put any effort in. My stuff didn't come out because I have more talent or I'm lucky. I busted my ass, I practiced, I looked up stuff, I talked to others and sought advice. All you have to do is meet requirements, and at times exceed expectations.

What did it cost to attend college?

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College professors will often round up a grade simply based on attendance and effort. Not to say that you would have failed otherwise, Spaulding, but it was very conscientious to engage in the material and put forth maximum effort. Doing that will never hurt.

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I think 20 years ago it was around 20K per year. I still think it has value, even though I've never really used it. My parents paid all of it.

This semester was a little over 3k. I paid all of it. Honestly, I'm impressed by the facilities we have and the quality of instructors.

College prices are ridiculous. It has to change at some point.

No and I can't figure out why people barely put in minimum effort. Why bother? You have an opportunity and you are pissing it away.

I don't think it's that complicated to figure out. Most 20 year olds are idiots. Occam's Razor.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I gave my daughter a laundry list of success factors to navigating undergrad. It took me until grad school to learn them well.

Amazingly, the most important, simple, and obvious one is always attend class. But when you’re away at school, it is easy to sleep in, and your dorm mates egg you on because going to class isn’t important. Even at UIC, a commuter school, you would see half filled classes. The worst example was a class of 120 students that on a given lecture day had 11. I counted. Come midterm exam, the hall was filled.

So anyway, my daughter told me that it is exactly as I remembered. She has classes where at least half the students are missing. At $50k a year, I told her to get her ass to class and learn something.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Sure. I bet few people did more idiotic things than myself at 20. Not bothering to show up, consistently blow off assignments, get more than halfway thru a class and drop it. That's not age, that's a person. That's ethic and not giving a shit.

There were 14 people in one of my labs, including myself. If I could afford to fund their education I'd only have sponsored 3 people fully, and maybe 4 half. The other 6, I wouldn't give them JORR's found change. Bizarre behavior, chronic absenteeism, not bothering to work, like how are you going to function in life issues.

Reports from all three of my kids have been that MANY of their fellow students put in far less than minimal effort. I know mine all worked hard to achieve great grades (oldest: 4.0 for all four years of grad classes to become DRx, middle one: only one non-A in earning Masters in IT, daughter has the best grades and still studies way harder than the other two)YES, Button 48

But reports are that half-full lectures are the norm, cheating is rampant, and the kids just could not care less. They all party, get new cars, shop all the time, and make the stupidest of decisions you could imagine. (But then, I know many of their parents, and they are not the brightest and the best, nor are they even tuned in to their kids' decisions.) My daughter fretted over her Accounting exam, she missed two questions for a 98%. Class average was 67%! But that rounds up to a C?

The middle son reported one of his classes has only ten students, four only appeared the first day, never again. A couple of weeks ago it was just him and the teacher for 20 minutes until chronically-late-emotional-issues-girl showed up. There is no value to the education process for these kids.

I told all three of mine that I learned something very important in college- how to find out what your boss/supervisor/teacher/customer wants and give that to them. Read between the lines, listen to their complaints, give them what they want. That, and the gestation period of the hog is three months, three weeks and three days. And my body rejects alcohol. That's about it.

Yeah. And at the end they are saying I didn't learn anything, that was hard, my professor doesn't like me. You think? You're professor doesn't know who you are but they know you don't care if you learn or not.

My youngest son turned down a few athletic scholarships(soccer) and could have had his tuition paid for at any state school (VA). He wanted to go to a particular private university in California. We told him that he was going to have to pay for his education himself and we were able to get him an interest free loan and he got himself a job on campus as well as a paid internship for his last two years. It took he and his wife 9 years to re-pay the considerable loan that he took out and that set he and his wife up for a very good credit rating when they purchased their home.

The thing is that these loans can be re-paid if people are serious about committing to doing it. All of this debt forgiveness to me is bullshit. There should be a price paid for a good education. Why should other people pay via their taxes for someone else's kid going to college?

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

yep.

3 things I've repeatedly tried to tell my son
- You have to go to class
- You have to assignments
- You have put the time in studying outside of class

You skip on any of these 3 you're wasting your time. Just because someone else can blow off class and do well on tests means nothing for you. Sorry...you're not that gifted. that's life...it's never fair.

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Spaulding, IU has a lengthy orientation day for parents and students. Most of it did nothing for me. But the one thing that ringed true and I wish I had known, was introduce yourself to the professor on the first day of class. I never did that.

Crazy how all our stories seem to align.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I asked my sons to consider all the time spent in and around high school, classes, homework, studying, etc.. If that's just nine-ten hours a day, in comparison they'd only spend three daily hours in college classes. If they only spent two additional hours studying they'd be ahead of at least 2/3 to 3/4 of their classmates and then could have had all the fun I did. And I worked about 23-25 hours a week as well to finance it.

It's not hard, they just have to realize that the primary goal is to get out as well as possible. After the first good job, no one really cares about your g.p.a..

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

As usual

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

In case anyone was curious, in 2012 my year of trade school cost $17500.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Why are you posting this?

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AVAYA!

it's funny not long after i paid off my EIU student loans i took on more for trade school.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I wondered about that when I'd be home and see some of those commercials. I stupidly never would've guessed that high. But then again, I also hadn't thought about the cost of my wife taking online classes at Robert Morris to try for a second degree almost twenty years ago.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I'm a huge nerd. I color code all my folders, notebooks and books. When I read I take notes always. I study for a few days before tests. I write outlines for papers and I always make my kids do this. I think they were surprised to see it in action. I have one grade left, I'm pretty sure I'm getting all As but I learned. I know I did, and while I'm still a novice at things I'm pretty competent. My baguette was suppose to be 19 - 21 inches long and I think they came in around 17. When I went up for my grade I said chef Can I say what I did before you say anything. I said I know my baguettes are short but they are near perfect otherwise. You can take off all 10 points for shaping but I know how to make a baguette and I know I can correct that in the future. I was so excited.

No shame in that. Probably just cold that day.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul