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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:24 am 
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The Hawk wrote:
Nas wrote:
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That’s my point...if he threw downfield and didn’t dunk and dunk so much, the pics would come.


Except even he's never been an interception machine at any level. I do understand the thinking that the Brett Favre throws will eventually get picked off but I actually believe that it will open up the underneath stuff. This may sound shocking but he even appears to be a better player when he's allowed to throw the ball 15+ yards. MANY of his best throws during his improved 2nd half play were downfield darts.


That's true. What I really do not understand is how in the hell Ryan Pace and whoever is responsible for assessment talent for this team can put an offensive line together for this team could actually have put this offensive line together. Its a farce. Harry Houdini couldn't escape the pocket with this offensive line surrounding him. :cry: :cry: :cry:


You realize Ryan Pace, who sucks at identifying NFL talent according to you, handpicked (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky, whom you adore, right?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:26 am 
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The line sucks, but Mitch hasn't overcome their deficiencies like other QBs who have similar sack totals (Rodgers, Watson, Allen, etc.).

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:27 am 
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Nas wrote:
MANY have created a narrative about (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky
You certainly have. And it's a very poor one at that.

Nas wrote:
That has dramatically changed but MANY still cling to "Mitch can't read defenses".
He can't. Kruetz was on The Score this morning and was talking about one of the MANY red zone drives that resulted in 3 points the Bears had yesterday. He said there was a play that was an obvious blitz coming from the outside, and that it should have been very easy for the QB to diagnose and either 1) audible, or 2) know you have a quick route called the ball needs to come out quickly. What did Mitch do? Took a sack. Olin said that should be very basic stuff that a third year QB should recognize without an issue.

Nas wrote:
"(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky looks lost if Nagy isn't talking in his ear."
MANY times Trubiksy does look lost. It's not made up at all.

Nas wrote:
Then there are those who hate (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky so much that they feel all the Bears need to do is Bring in Winston or Tannehill and the Bears will have a top 10 offense. It's laughable.
I don't hate Mitch, I just want him to play better. A lot better. If the Bears had Tannehill this year they probably would have won at least two more games and made the playoffs.

Nas wrote:
They don't have an NFL TE, they NEED 4 new offensive linemen, they don't have a reliable #2WR and their #1 WR and best offensive player is a glorified possession receiver.
Rinse and repeat. You said the same things about Cutler year after year. Have you not learned from your mistakes?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:39 am 
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I think it is ludicrous to think that this team is "fixable" and that if somehow they brought in a veteran quarterback to replace (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky it will be somekind of play-off team. This team is DOOMED as far as I am concerned. They need three offensive linemen, a tight end, a running back, and a burner at wide receiver. That is over half of the offensive team. Trouble is, they don't recognize this because they have a horse shit general manager and a dumb over-all management group.

I've felt this way for years, namely that the Bears have lacked a kick ass football guy as the president of the team along with the same kind of mind set as a general manager. Who do they have? He's a charlatan disguised as a football guy. The real problem, though, when one takes all of the total bullshit out of the story is that the Bears really don't want to commit to handing the operations over to a football outsider to run. They like their Teddy boy and company. Its safe for them. This team and its operation is just a sad joke and the joke is on those like us who are Bear's fans. :eye: :eye: :eye: :eye:

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Last edited by The Hawk on Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:42 am 
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Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.

Mahomes goes to a team and has to wait a year before playing. He learns under the great Andy Reid and has elite players around him like Hill, Schwartz, Hunt and Kelce. Watson gets Hopkins and some other decent to good talent. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky gets the great Dowell Loggains as a coach, Kendall Wright as a #1 WR and fucking Dion Sims as his #1 TE.

It hasn't gotten much better since then. Robinson is a good #1 WR but he isn't going to beat anyone deep. He's essentially a smaller version of Moose. Outside of him the Bears really have nothing. The more experienced Watson and Mahomes were given elite talent to work with and they've had success. A raw (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was mostly given bums and essentially set up to fail and then Bears fans complain about him not lighting up the scoreboard with these bums.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:43 am 
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Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.

Mahomes goes to a team and has to wait a year before playing. He learns under the great Andy Reid and has elite players around him like Hill, Schwartz, Hunt and Kelce. Watson gets Hopkins and some other decent to good talent. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky gets the great Dowell Loggains as a coach, Kendall Wright as a #1 WR and fucking Dion Sims as his #1 TE.

It hasn't gotten much better since then. Robinson is a good #1 WR but he isn't going to beat anyone deep. He's essentially a smaller version of Moose. Outside of him the Bears really have nothing. The more experienced Watson and Mahomes were given elite talent to work with and they've had success. A raw (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was mostly given bums and essentially set up to fail and then Bears fans complain about him not lighting up the scoreboard with these bums.


The truth hurts but what you said is the truth. :oops: :oops: :oops:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:44 am 
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Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.
Stop it. Mitch just finished his third season as starter. He has plenty of experience at the NFL level at this point.

Nas wrote:
Mahomes goes to a team and has to wait a year before playing. He learns under the great Andy Reid and has elite players around him like Hill, Schwartz, Hunt and Kelce. Watson gets Hopkins and some other decent to good talent. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky gets the great Dowell Loggains as a coach, Kendall Wright as a #1 WR and fucking Dion Sims as his #1 TE.

It hasn't gotten much better since then. Robinson is a good #1 WR but he isn't going to beat anyone deep. He's essentially a smaller version of Moose. Outside of him the Bears really have nothing. The more experienced Watson and Mahomes were given elite talent to work with and they've had success. A raw (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was mostly given bums and essentially set up to fail and then Bears fans complain about him not lighting up the scoreboard with these bums.
Rinse and repeat. You said the same things about Cutler year after year. Have you not learned from your mistakes?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:45 am 
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They really should get Mitch a burner on the outside that he can overthrow four times per game when he’s open I agree .

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:45 am 
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Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.


They were wrong.

We can't continue to celebrate mediocrity. That's what Mitch has been so far.

A good QB can make players around him better.

Hopefully Mitch improves next season, but that's all you can go on. Hope.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:51 am 
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Mitch needs to study his ass off (Peyton Manning style) during the off-season and show massive improvement in OTA's, the preseason (yes, he needs to play next preseason), and play good/great in 2020....if he is to be anything other than a backup on say...the Bengals after next season.

Picking up his 5th year option is a terrible decision, which the Bears will inevitably make. Draft a QB in the 2nd round. Have him sit a year, then start him in 2021.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:52 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
MANY have created a narrative about (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky
You certainly have. And it's a very poor one at that.

Nas wrote:
That has dramatically changed but MANY still cling to "Mitch can't read defenses".
He can't. Kruetz was on The Score this morning and was talking about one of the MANY red zone drives that resulted in 3 points the Bears had yesterday. He said there was a play that was an obvious blitz coming from the outside, and that it should have been very easy for the QB to diagnose and either 1) audible, or 2) know you have a quick route called the ball needs to come out quickly. What did Mitch do? Took a sack. Olin said that should be very basic stuff that a third year QB should recognize without an issue.

Nas wrote:
"(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky looks lost if Nagy isn't talking in his ear."
MANY times Trubiksy does look lost. It's not made up at all.

Nas wrote:
Then there are those who hate (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky so much that they feel all the Bears need to do is Bring in Winston or Tannehill and the Bears will have a top 10 offense. It's laughable.
I don't hate Mitch, I just want him to play better. A lot better. If the Bears had Tannehill this year they probably would have won at least two more games and made the playoffs.

Nas wrote:
They don't have an NFL TE, they NEED 4 new offensive linemen, they don't have a reliable #2WR and their #1 WR and best offensive player is a glorified possession receiver.
Rinse and repeat. You said the same things about Cutler year after year. Have you not learned from your mistakes?


Frank it's hard to have these discussions with you when you continuously make things up or insert things into your arguments that you have been repeatedly told was wrong and you likely know is bullshit.

I've never been a fan of Cutler's and never complained about the lack of talent around him. The Bears catered to him in every way possible from the moment he arrived and surrounded him with skill players that no Bears QB has enjoyed in my lifetime.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:55 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Nas wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
That’s my point...if he threw downfield and didn’t dunk and dunk so much, the pics would come.


Except even he's never been an interception machine at any level. I do understand the thinking that the Brett Favre throws will eventually get picked off but I actually believe that it will open up the underneath stuff. This may sound shocking but he even appears to be a better player when he's allowed to throw the ball 15+ yards. MANY of his best throws during his improved 2nd half play were downfield darts.


That's true. What I really do not understand is how in the hell Ryan Pace and whoever is responsible for assessment talent for this team can put an offensive line together for this team could actually have put this offensive line together. Its a farce. Harry Houdini couldn't escape the pocket with this offensive line surrounding him. :cry: :cry: :cry:


You realize Ryan Pace, who sucks at identifying NFL talent according to you, handpicked (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky, whom you adore, right?


I said that Ryan Pace should be fired because of the FACT that he is responsible for putting the offensive team together for the Bears including the worst offensive line in football along with not being able to bring in even a decent tight end among other deficiencies.

Also, I don't "adore" (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky, bozo. I think that it is difficult to see any quarterback being successful with how bad the players around (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky are particularly the offensive linemen and TE are. :bom: :bom: :bom:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:55 am 
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Nas wrote:
Frank it's hard to have these discussions with you when you continuously make things up or insert things into your arguments that you have been repeatedly told was wrong and you likely know is bullshit.
Please point out where I was wrong in that post you quoted. You will have a hard time doing so.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:56 am 
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Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.

Mahomes goes to a team and has to wait a year before playing. He learns under the great Andy Reid and has elite players around him like Hill, Schwartz, Hunt and Kelce. Watson gets Hopkins and some other decent to good talent. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky gets the great Dowell Loggains as a coach, Kendall Wright as a #1 WR and fucking Dion Sims as his #1 TE.

It hasn't gotten much better since then. Robinson is a good #1 WR but he isn't going to beat anyone deep. He's essentially a smaller version of Moose. Outside of him the Bears really have nothing. The more experienced Watson and Mahomes were given elite talent to work with and they've had success. A raw (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was mostly given bums and essentially set up to fail and then Bears fans complain about him not lighting up the scoreboard with these bums.


Agreed on Mahomes. And yes (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky hasn't had a weapon like Hopkins. But until Houston finally addressed it this year, his offensive line was a sieve in comparison to the Bear. He was getting sacked 40-50 times a year, leading to him having to travel by bus to road games since he physically couldn't fly. As opposed to the line previously stacked with pro bowlers, as touted by Dolphin, yourself and others here who also believed in this gimmicky offense driven in part by the greatness of Cohen.

Fanaticism in defense of a bum like (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky isn't a good thing.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:57 am 
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Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.

Mahomes goes to a team and has to wait a year before playing. He learns under the great Andy Reid and has elite players around him like Hill, Schwartz, Hunt and Kelce. Watson gets Hopkins and some other decent to good talent. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky gets the great Dowell Loggains as a coach, Kendall Wright as a #1 WR and fucking Dion Sims as his #1 TE.

It hasn't gotten much better since then. Robinson is a good #1 WR but he isn't going to beat anyone deep. He's essentially a smaller version of Moose. Outside of him the Bears really have nothing. The more experienced Watson and Mahomes were given elite talent to work with and they've had success. A raw (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was mostly given bums and essentially set up to fail and then Bears fans complain about him not lighting up the scoreboard with these bums.


Robinson is great, I'll agree we need two tight ends-.watson has a far worse line than Mitch.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:58 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.


They were wrong.

We can't continue to celebrate mediocrity. That's what Mitch has been so far.

A good QB can make players around him better.

Hopefully Mitch improves next season, but that's all you can go on. Hope.


There is a learning curve when you come into the league. Even the GOAT wasn't thrown to the wolves.

Brady isn't going to make Leno a better tackle or make Kendall Wright and Dion Sims #1 options.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:00 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
Frank it's hard to have these discussions with you when you continuously make things up or insert things into your arguments that you have been repeatedly told was wrong and you likely know is bullshit.
Please point out where I was wrong in that post you quoted. You will have a hard time doing so.


If you read the portion that you took out of the quote you excluded it may become clear.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:01 pm 
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312player wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.

Mahomes goes to a team and has to wait a year before playing. He learns under the great Andy Reid and has elite players around him like Hill, Schwartz, Hunt and Kelce. Watson gets Hopkins and some other decent to good talent. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky gets the great Dowell Loggains as a coach, Kendall Wright as a #1 WR and fucking Dion Sims as his #1 TE.

It hasn't gotten much better since then. Robinson is a good #1 WR but he isn't going to beat anyone deep. He's essentially a smaller version of Moose. Outside of him the Bears really have nothing. The more experienced Watson and Mahomes were given elite talent to work with and they've had success. A raw (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was mostly given bums and essentially set up to fail and then Bears fans complain about him not lighting up the scoreboard with these bums.


Robinson is great, I'll agree we need two tight ends-.watson has a far worse line than Mitch.


Robinson is really good but he has possession receiver talent. He's not going to stretch a defense in any way. Watson's line is far superior to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's this year. It isn't close.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:02 pm 
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You said I made things up and was wrong. I simply asked you to point out where.


Nas wrote:
There is a learning curve when you come into the league. Even the GOAT wasn't thrown to the wolves.
Compare Rodgers' and Brady's numbers during their third year as a starter to Mitch's this year, and then get back to us.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.


They were wrong.

We can't continue to celebrate mediocrity. That's what Mitch has been so far.

A good QB can make players around him better.

Hopefully Mitch improves next season, but that's all you can go on. Hope.


There is a learning curve when you come into the league. Even the GOAT wasn't thrown to the wolves.

Brady isn't going to make Leno a better tackle or make Kendall Wright and Dion Sims #1 options.


Disagree. Brady and Rogers have made dogshit receivers into Pro Bowlers.

A number 2 pick has to be better than middle of the road. Especially a QB.

Mitch was anywhere from 12th-16th last year depending on what metric you use.

This year he's 20th-24th.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.

Mahomes goes to a team and has to wait a year before playing. He learns under the great Andy Reid and has elite players around him like Hill, Schwartz, Hunt and Kelce. Watson gets Hopkins and some other decent to good talent. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky gets the great Dowell Loggains as a coach, Kendall Wright as a #1 WR and fucking Dion Sims as his #1 TE.

It hasn't gotten much better since then. Robinson is a good #1 WR but he isn't going to beat anyone deep. He's essentially a smaller version of Moose. Outside of him the Bears really have nothing. The more experienced Watson and Mahomes were given elite talent to work with and they've had success. A raw (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was mostly given bums and essentially set up to fail and then Bears fans complain about him not lighting up the scoreboard with these bums.


Agreed on Mahomes. And yes (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky hasn't had a weapon like Hopkins. But until Houston finally addressed it this year, his offensive line was a sieve in comparison to the Bear. He was getting sacked 40-50 times a year, leading to him having to travel by bus to road games since he physically couldn't fly. As opposed to the line previously stacked with pro bowlers, as touted by Dolphin, yourself and others here who also believed in this gimmicky offense driven in part by the greatness of Cohen.

Fanaticism in defense of a bum like (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky isn't a good thing.


The point is those guys had safety blankets that helped with their development. I posted the numbers earlier this year and Watson had like 60% of his completions to Hopkins before this season. Hopkins would have over 100+ receptions and the next closest guy would have 30 or less.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Nas wrote:
Mahomes and Watson came into the NFL with far more experience than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. The Bears drafted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky #2 because they believed that he had the most upside even though he was raw.


They were wrong.

We can't continue to celebrate mediocrity. That's what Mitch has been so far.

A good QB can make players around him better.

Hopefully Mitch improves next season, but that's all you can go on. Hope.


There is a learning curve when you come into the league. Even the GOAT wasn't thrown to the wolves.

Brady isn't going to make Leno a better tackle or make Kendall Wright and Dion Sims #1 options.


Disagree. Brady and Rogers have made dogshit receivers into Pro Bowlers.

A number 2 pick has to be better than middle of the road. Especially a QB.

Mitch was anywhere from 12th-16th last year depending on what metric you use.

This year he's 20th-24th.


Much later in their careers and neither were able to do it this year.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:14 pm 
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I’m with Nas. Mitch should remain the starting QB for the foreseeable future.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
You said I made things up and was wrong. I simply asked you to point out where.


Nas wrote:
There is a learning curve when you come into the league. Even the GOAT wasn't thrown to the wolves.
Compare Rodgers' and Brady's numbers during their third year as a starter to Mitch's this year, and then get back to us.


Rodgers sat until he was like 25 or 26. If (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky isn't as good as Brady
and another HoF player that means he sucks? This is almost as ridiculous as you continually claiming that I said Cutler didn't have any talent around him.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:16 pm 
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Mitch 2019 stats:

passing yards: 21st
passing yards per game: 27th
passing yards per attempt: 32nd
tds: 27th
passer rating: 28th

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:17 pm 
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doug - evergreen park wrote:
Mitch needs to study his ass off (Peyton Manning style) during the off-season and show massive improvement in OTA's, the preseason (yes, he needs to play next preseason), and play good/great in 2020....if he is to be anything other than a backup on say...the Bengals after next season.

Picking up his 5th year option is a terrible decision, which the Bears will inevitably make. Draft a QB in the 2nd round. Have him sit a year, then start him in 2021.


Why wouldn't you pick up his 5th year option?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Watson's line is far superior to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's this year. It isn't close.


Yet Watson was sacked 44 times, to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's 38.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:18 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Mitch 2019 stats:

passing yards: 21st
passing yards per game: 27th
passing yards per attempt: 32nd
tds: 27th
passer rating: 28th


Lotta garbage time stat padding as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Nas wrote:
Watson's line is far superior to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's this year. It isn't close.


Yet Watson was sacked 44 times, to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's 38.


I've watched Watson play 7 or 8 times this year. He's got no time to throw, he's also a hell of a lot smarter than Mitch, he changes protections and plays and gets rid of the ball quick..he can read a D... Mitch can't.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:21 pm 
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312player wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Mitch 2019 stats:

passing yards: 21st
passing yards per game: 27th
passing yards per attempt: 32nd
tds: 27th
passer rating: 28th


Lotta garbage time stat padding as well.


Plus, with a ypa that's dead last, you would expect his completion pct to be good to great since he's nickel and dime-ing his way down the field. But even there he's only 18th in the league, at 63%.

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