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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:05 pm 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
Bridgewater was far from a proven QB when he was with the Vikings. Paying him for 4 starts as a backup seems like a disaster in the making.

Almost never does a "sure thing" at the quarterback position become available. You either get one from the draft, which means you have to trust that they'll be able to handle the transition to the pro game (less than half do). The alternative is you sign a guy who was an average starter or particularly outstanding backup and hope your coaching staff and personnel can make the most of them. Every blue moon one becomes available via trade, which still doesn't work out a lot (Cutler) or a guy like Peyton Manning hits free agency due to a confluence of very rare events.

You'll be able to poke holes in anyone the Bears get. They aren't in a cap position to fork over massive money for Rivers or Brady, dont even have a draft pick to spend on a top quarterback and aren't in a roster position to trade two entire drafts away for someone (I dont know even know who would be available).

The Bears are really just hoping to get lucky. Its why the Mike Glennon signing that everyone hates actually wasn't so bad. You get a look at these guys as much as you can.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:50 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
No. Alex Smith is currently re learning how to walk.


Washington would have to release him and Smith would need to pass a physical. Seems doubtful that his career is going to continue though given that injury, but I think he's been recently quoted as he wants to continue playing.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:54 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Tom Brady will be available


would be an obvious fit, but do they have the cap availability? Probably going to want 3/$100MM


Would a 43 year old QB be able to demand that much money? He's only going to be interested in a handful of teams that are ready to win right now. Off the top of my head, Chicago, Carolina (depending on Cam), LAC, maybe an argument could be made for the AFC West teams (minus KC) or Indy. I don't see the Giants signing him if McDaniels goes there.

If Brady wants to win another championship, I wouldn't be surprised if he took something in the $20M range....It's hard to win in another city if they have to cut several players to afford him. He'd have to bend to some degree unless there's a team with $80M in cap space and pretty good to begin with.

Still, don't see Brady playing for another team. 90% chance he returns NE, 5% he retires, 5% NE blows it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:39 am 
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Belechick don't want Brady back, he knows he's finished. He cost em this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:12 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
No. Alex Smith is currently re learning how to walk.


Isn't Smith further along in his rehab than that?

Last I heard, he was running on a treadmill.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:27 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
No. Alex Smith is currently re learning how to walk.


Isn't Smith further along in his rehab than that?

Last I heard, he was running on a treadmill.


Yes.

Here is the most recent report I found from about 1.5 months ago

https://www.redskins.com/news/alex-smith-recovery-update-running-dropback-passes

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:14 am 
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Bridgewater and Tannehill are better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. Every other available quarterback isn't. However, it would be hard to pass up Tom Brady if they could afford him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:24 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Bridgewater was far from a proven QB when he was with the Vikings. Paying him for 4 starts as a backup seems like a disaster in the making.

Almost never does a "sure thing" at the quarterback position become available. You either get one from the draft, which means you have to trust that they'll be able to handle the transition to the pro game (less than half do). The alternative is you sign a guy who was an average starter or particularly outstanding backup and hope your coaching staff and personnel can make the most of them. Every blue moon one becomes available via trade, which still doesn't work out a lot (Cutler) or a guy like Peyton Manning hits free agency due to a confluence of very rare events.

You'll be able to poke holes in anyone the Bears get. They aren't in a cap position to fork over massive money for Rivers or Brady, dont even have a draft pick to spend on a top quarterback and aren't in a roster position to trade two entire drafts away for someone (I dont know even know who would be available).

The Bears are really just hoping to get lucky. Its why the Mike Glennon signing that everyone hates actually wasn't so bad. You get a look at these guys as much as you can.


Its going to be interesting what the Saints and Brees are going to do. I saw a fall-off with Brees and also with his counterpart Brady with NE. I heavily doubt that they would go to another team. Both are first ballot HOFers and have nothing to really play for anymore. I think that both of them are going to retire. The only thing that could keep them going is the all-time passing mark with Brees just slightly ahead of Brady. Does Brady hope that Brees retires and he goes on to beat him? Stranger decisions have happened. :? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:34 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bridgewater and Tannehill are better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. Every other available quarterback isn't. However, it would be hard to pass up Tom Brady if they could afford him.


(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky ranked in the bottom third of every important QB statistical category. He is the only passer in the NFL that failed to average at least 10 yards per pass completion. PFF - which takes context into account when assembling statistics - paints an even worse picture of (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky than the traditional statistics, which are pretty bad. What is your evidence that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is "better" than those other QBs? The eye test and statistics indicate that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is actually really bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:37 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bridgewater and Tannehill are better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. Every other available quarterback isn't. However, it would be hard to pass up Tom Brady if they could afford him.


(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky ranked in the bottom third of every important QB statistical category. He is the only passer in the NFL that failed to average at least 10 yards per pass completion. PFF - which takes context into account when assembling statistics - paints an even worse picture of (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky than the traditional statistics, which are pretty bad. What is your evidence that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is "better" than those other QBs? The eye test and statistics indicate that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is actually really bad.

Eli got benched. He was horrible. Mariota was bad too. Tannehill, who was considered a bust, far outperformed him. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky regressed but I expect him to be better next year. I can't say the same for Eli or Mariota.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:44 am 
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Eli got benched for the same reason Glennon got benched. The young, draft pick QB was behind them on the depth chart.

If the Giants had McCown or another veteran as their #2, I bet Eli would have started all 16 games this season.

Which is why there needs to be a viable #2 on the depth chart at QB. Maybe the #2 is Mitch. It can't be Chase Daniel.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:51 am 
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Mitch will be QB in 2020 and I doubt the #2 spot will be held by anyone interesting. They have no draft capital and any money they have MUST go to address the O-line.

Still doesn't address the problem with the head coach that is living in a different universe where there's no need to run the football. the Saints game alone should have been grounds for terminating Nagy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:53 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Eli got benched for the same reason Glennon got benched. The young, draft pick QB was behind them on the depth chart.

If the Giants had McCown or another veteran as their #2, I bet Eli would have started all 16 games this season.

Which is why there needs to be a viable #2 on the depth chart at QB. Maybe the #2 is Mitch. It can't be Chase Daniel.

Eli has been bad for years, and expensive, and old.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:13 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bridgewater and Tannehill are better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. Every other available quarterback isn't. However, it would be hard to pass up Tom Brady if they could afford him.


(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky ranked in the bottom third of every important QB statistical category. He is the only passer in the NFL that failed to average at least 10 yards per pass completion. PFF - which takes context into account when assembling statistics - paints an even worse picture of (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky than the traditional statistics, which are pretty bad. What is your evidence that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is "better" than those other QBs? The eye test and statistics indicate that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is actually really bad.

PFF thought Eli outperformed Mitch (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky in 2018. I wouldn't factor their grading into this discussion. Their grading system is just clickbait.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:18 am 
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I'd have to look more into it but my understanding is they drill down into each play to ensure the success or failure of each play is properly attributed to a certain player. For example, throwing a two yard pass to a RB who takes it down the field for 80 yards shouldn't spike a QB's passer rating as much as it does. PFF takes this into account. That may be why (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky graded low in 2018.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:26 pm 
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I dont think (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky necessarily regressed the way everyone insists. His second half was probably the most encouraging football we've seen him play, even better than week four Tampa Bay in 2018. He went through long stretches when he looked like a real NFL quarterback.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:29 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
I dont think (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky necessarily regressed the way everyone insists. His second half was probably the most encouraging football we've seen him play, even better than week four Tampa Bay in 2018. He went through long stretches when he looked like a real NFL quarterback.
Outside of Dallas, which clearly was Mitch's best game of the season, here are the point totals for the Bears final eight games;

14
20
7
19
24
13
3
21

Keep in mind of those 121 points scored, 63 were scored against the Lions and Giants. The stretches where Mitch looked like an NFL QB were not long enough by any teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:34 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
I dont think (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky necessarily regressed the way everyone insists. His second half was probably the most encouraging football we've seen him play, even better than week four Tampa Bay in 2018. He went through long stretches when he looked like a real NFL quarterback.
Outside of Dallas, which clearly was Mitch's best game of the season, here are the point totals for the Bears final eight games;

14
20
7
19
24
13
3
21

Keep in mind of those 121 points scored, 63 were scored against the Lions and Giants. The stretches where Mitch looked like an NFL QB were not long enough by any teams.

This is reductive and stupid. It does not take into account the reality that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is part of a broader offense and personnel group that has major problems. The offensive line is horrible and the offensive scheme is, at this point, beyond stagnant.

What we can do is watch (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky elude and make throws. Even if it doesn't result in points you can see the improvement in play.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
I dont think (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky necessarily regressed the way everyone insists. His second half was probably the most encouraging football we've seen him play, even better than week four Tampa Bay in 2018. He went through long stretches when he looked like a real NFL quarterback.
Outside of Dallas, which clearly was Mitch's best game of the season, here are the point totals for the Bears final eight games;

14
20
7
19
24
13
3
21

Keep in mind of those 121 points scored, 63 were scored against the Lions and Giants. The stretches where Mitch looked like an NFL QB were not long enough by any teams.
This is fair, but it also means that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky had an exceptional 2018.
These are the points scored in those games:
23
24
16
48
28
31
24
41
34
25
15
24
14
24

It makes it at least plausible for a big year for him next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:40 pm 
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he seemed fairly decent to me in 2018 but what the hell do I know.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:40 pm 
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It is actually quite smart. The goal of the offense is the score points. The Bears offense scored 20+ points against no winning team this season. Every time the Bears offense scored 20+ points was against a losing or a .500 team. The Saints game featured a special teams TD, and the last Vikings game had a safety.

The most important player on the offense is the quarterback, and he isn't good enough to make the players around him better. I'm not expecting him to be Manning or Rodgers in their prime, but I am expecting him to be league average. Despite the MANY problems that existed on the Bears offense, had the QB just been league average this past season, they probably score enough points to win two games that they ended up losing, and thus would have made the playoffs.

To ignore the horrible QB play and hang on just a couple of good games or some good throws is what really is reductive and stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:43 pm 
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Rick, we weren't talking about 2018. America brought up the final eight games of this season where Mitch supposedly played great football for extended stretches.

Mitch didn't do that. If he did, we would have watched the Bears in New Orleans this past weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
It is actually quite smart. The goal of the offense is the score points. The Bears offense scored 20+ points against no winning team this season. Every time the Bears offense scored 20+ points was against a losing or a .500 team. The Saints game featured a special teams TD, and the last Vikings game had a safety.

The most important player on the offense is the quarterback, and he isn't good enough to make the players around him better. I'm not expecting him to be Manning or Rodgers in their prime, but I am expecting him to be league average. Despite the MANY problems that existed on the Bears offense, had the QB just been league average this past season, they probably score enough points to win two games that they ended up losing, and thus would have made the playoffs.

To ignore the horrible QB play and hang on just a couple of good games or some good throws is what really is reductive and stupid.

You just want him to be average but you're upset that he doesn't make everyone around him better? You're all over the place.

Tell me, how is Mitch supposed to compensate for the fact that in THE YEAR OF THE POWER RUN his offense's run scheme (something he has no control over) was stuck in the stone ages and among the most ineffective in the NFL?


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:55 pm 
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I'm not all over the place.

I want Mitch to be great. I want him to compete for MVP awards. That is probably not going to happen.

I stated if Mitch were just league average in 2019, the Bears are a playoff game. I debunked your "he played great for extended stretches during the final half of the season." I acknowledged the problems on offense. There was bad play calling. However, despite ALL of those issues it still comes down to poor QB play.

The fact is that the mantra of the 2019 Bears season can be accurately told as the following; If the Bears had better production from the quarterback position, they would have made the playoffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:05 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I'm not all over the place.

I want Mitch to be great. I want him to compete for MVP awards. That is probably not going to happen.

I stated if Mitch were just league average in 2019, the Bears are a playoff game. I debunked your "he played great for extended stretches during the final half of the season." I acknowledged the problems on offense. There was bad play calling. However, despite ALL of those issues it still comes down to poor QB play.

The fact is that the mantra of the 2019 Bears season can be accurately told as the following; If the Bears had better production from the quarterback position, they would have made the playoffs.

You didn't debunk anything. You claimed (correctly) that the Bears offense sucked but how attributable that is to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is very debatable. Especially when you consider the state of the offensive tackles and stubborness of the head coach in adhering to the scheme.


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:05 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I'm not all over the place.

I want Mitch to be great. I want him to compete for MVP awards. That is probably not going to happen.

I stated if Mitch were just league average in 2019, the Bears are a playoff game. I debunked your "he played great for extended stretches during the final half of the season." I acknowledged the problems on offense. There was bad play calling. However, despite ALL of those issues it still comes down to poor QB play.

The fact is that the mantra of the 2019 Bears season can be accurately told as the following; If the Bears had better production from the quarterback position, they would have made the playoffs.

You can say that again!!


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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Rick, we weren't talking about 2018. America brought up the final eight games of this season where Mitch supposedly played great football for extended stretches.

Mitch didn't do that. If he did, we would have watched the Bears in New Orleans this past weekend.
If we are discussing the concern about him going forward based on those numbers then his 2018 numbers should give us a reason for optimism.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:08 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
You claimed (correctly) that the Bears offense sucked but how attributable that is to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is very debatable.
:lol: :lol:

I'm pretty confident in saying that the most important position in all of professional sports is very much responsible for a lot of the offensive happenings, both good and bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears QBs 2020
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:16 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
You claimed (correctly) that the Bears offense sucked but how attributable that is to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is very debatable.
:lol: :lol:

I'm pretty confident in saying that the most important position in all of professional sports is very much responsible for a lot of the offensive happenings, both good and bad.

What little good happened on offense had everything to do with Mitch connecting with Robinson and Miller. If you want to show me what he could've done more without it being a herculean effort I'm all ears.


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