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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:07 am 
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Texans are just proud. I never sensed any arrogance. You can keep those scorching summers, and there isn’t a ton water to cool off in unlike like Florida. Most of their cities are pretty bland. Austin is by far the best.

Your great cities are SF, Denver, Chicago, NYC, NO, Vegas, and possibly Seattle all for different reasons. I found Miami to be great too now that the downtown has been heavily redeveloped. And of course San Diego and Nashville are nice too. That’s my list from extensive travel.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:17 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Illinois is great and Chicago is the best city in the world but I would choose to live in Southern Africa before I go back for anything more than an extended visit or short contract.

Illinois is not great. Chicago is great. Love to visit but also love to leave.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:18 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
As much as I would like to leave IL, its easier said than done with 98% of our friends and family in the area.

Also, I would be a bit leery of straying too far from the Great Lakes for the simple fact that clean water will never be an issue here.



Solid point.. best fresh water source in the country. In 20 years, that could be huge


Not when the Electoral College is eliminated and California votes to take the water to grow almonds.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:31 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Texans are just proud. I never sensed any arrogance. You can keep those scorching summers, and there isn’t a ton water to cool off in unlike like Florida. Most of their cities are pretty bland. Austin is by far the best.

Your great cities are SF, Denver, Chicago, NYC, NO, Vegas, and possibly Seattle all for different reasons. I found Miami to be great too now that the downtown has been heavily redeveloped. And of course San Diego and Nashville are nice too. That’s my list from extensive travel.

No way is Denver on a tier with Chicago, New York, and New Orleans. It's fine, I liked it, I had fun, but...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:30 am 
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I have not been to Denver in 20 years. What is the problem CH beside airport way out in the boonies?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:36 am 
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There's no problem. Denver's cool. It's just not a world city like Chicago or New York, or a national treasure like New Orleans.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:52 am 
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There are a lot of great CITIES. You know, places with bars restaurants pro sports the arts non-white people etc etc

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:18 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Texans are just proud. I never sensed any arrogance. You can keep those scorching summers, and there isn’t a ton water to cool off in unlike like Florida. Most of their cities are pretty bland. Austin is by far the best.

Your great cities are SF, Denver, Chicago, NYC, NO, Vegas, and possibly Seattle all for different reasons. I found Miami to be great too now that the downtown has been heavily redeveloped. And of course San Diego and Nashville are nice too. That’s my list from extensive travel.

No way is Denver on a tier with Chicago, New York, and New Orleans. It's fine, I liked it, I had fun, but...


SF used to be great. Not anymore with all of the homeless and druggies on the street. Seattle is getting the same way as is Portland. I like Colorado in general but Denver is pretty meh. I love Kansas City and Austin and San Diego.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:41 pm 
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Even sanctuary cities are getting fed up. Running sweeps. Not to send them away or punish but get them out of sight. Locals that pay to live are fed up with homeless.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:39 pm 
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Austin's gone to shirt:

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Austin's grappling with what to do about the popularity of the city among free-range humans:

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/11/07 ... -homeless/


Homelessness on the rise in Dallas too; surprising as Dallas's police are as jack-booted thuggish as any PD in the country.

Goes in cycles, but Deep Ellum's more fun than anything in Austin. I dunno if the DEA/IRS cracks down on Deep Ellum businesses every few years but it seems like the half the district shutters simultaneously and then new bars/restaurants/tattoo parlors reopen in a periodic boom/bust/boom cycle.

6th Street's aight, as long as you don't mind undergrads puking/fighting everywhere. Sixth Street's a AAA version of Wrigleyville at Wrigleyville's worst.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:46 pm 
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Denver is great because LoDo anchored by Union Station is rocking. It has 300 days of sun and very nice weather overall. It is close to lots outdoor activities and is beautiful with the mountains in the west. A different great than Chicago.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:48 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I have not been to Denver in 20 years. What is the problem CH beside airport way out in the boonies?


The airport was built quite far away to avoid the political mess that comes with airport construction. It is the last new airport to be built in the U.S. They have a direct rail line that opened which runs to Union Station. It takes 36 minutes and runs all the time. Much faster than getting to the offsite rentals and then driving along Pena for ten minutes just to hit the jammed highways.

Denver has changed a ton with each year. Plus CO Springs is fairly close.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:50 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Even sanctuary cities are getting fed up. Running sweeps. Not to send them away or punish but get them out of sight. Locals that pay to live are fed up with homeless.

Homelessness and “sanctuary” designation are totally separate issues


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Even sanctuary cities are getting fed up. Running sweeps. Not to send them away or punish but get them out of sight. Locals that pay to live are fed up with homeless.

Homelessness and “sanctuary” designation are totally separate issues


Yeah the cities in homelessness crisis mode are places like Los Angeles where it is expensive to live and the weather is mild.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:14 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I have not been to Denver in 20 years. What is the problem CH beside airport way out in the boonies?


The airport was built quite far away to avoid the political mess that comes with airport construction. It is the last new airport to be built in the U.S. They have a direct rail line that opened which runs to Union Station. It takes 36 minutes and runs all the time. Much faster than getting to the offsite rentals and then driving along Pena for ten minutes just to hit the jammed highways.

Denver has changed a ton with each year. Plus CO Springs is fairly close.

I absolutely love that the airport is away from the city in Denver.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:29 pm 
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I really didn't think the Denver airport situation was notably worse than any other number of distant airports. No one expects to land downtown.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:46 pm 
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Flying to Toronto via Billy Bishop is so cool. Taxi to gate, ferry to “mainland” and you’re downtown within 15 minutes of wheels down


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I really didn't think the Denver airport situation was notably worse than any other number of distant airports. No one expects to land downtown.

It sucked for the 1st year or so because they weren’t allowed to build hotels nearby. The “Airport Hilton” was still by Stapleton and took 40 minutes to get to.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:55 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Even sanctuary cities are getting fed up. Running sweeps. Not to send them away or punish but get them out of sight. Locals that pay to live are fed up with homeless.

Homelessness and “sanctuary” designation are totally separate issues


They aren't completely separate at all. Both of those things are caused by liberal city and state policies. There are a helluva lot of illegals that end up on the street and homeless and a helluva lot of them end up as criminals in the drug trade.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:03 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Even sanctuary cities are getting fed up. Running sweeps. Not to send them away or punish but get them out of sight. Locals that pay to live are fed up with homeless.

Homelessness and “sanctuary” designation are totally separate issues


Yeah the cities in homelessness crisis mode are places like Los Angeles where it is expensive to live and the weather is mild.


It sure as hell isn't mild in Portland and Seattle and other cities in the winter time. Also, there is no answer to homelessness when people do not qualify for or want to work for a living. I hear all of the politicians talk about how this is somehow a federal problem and that there is a need for the federal government to build free housing for these people. I don't think so. All that will do is move the crap going on in the street to buildings which will become hell holes and dangerous. People need to work for a living. If someone is able enough to survive on a street, he or she needs to be working. That is the only real long term solution to homelessness.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:00 pm 
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http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/Jan ... Residents/

Only Poor People Move Out of Illinois for Other States

Quote:
Illinois lost more residents than any other state in the 2010s. The reason, according to the Illinois Policy Institute, Wall Street Journal, and Chicago Tribune editorial board, is that it’s taxing them away.

“It’s not the weather pushing people out of this state … to other Midwestern states,” the Tribune wrote last month. “It is loss of opportunity, high taxes and frustration at fiscal mismanagement by government leaders that penalizes taxpayers.

“What does Indiana offer that Illinois doesn’t? Lower taxes, more stable home values, balanced state budgets and funded pension systems. Not better weather.”

In fact, Illinois’s shrinking population is more complicated.

According to World Population Review, Illinois ranks ninth in overall tax burden, at 9.67 percent of a resident’s income. That’s mainly due to high property taxes; we rank 32nd in income tax and 13th in sales tax.

Plenty of states that gained population in the last 10 years have more onerous tax burdens than Illinois, including Hawaii and Minnesota. It’s true that of the four states that lost population in the last decade, three are among the top 10 most-taxed: Illinois, Vermont, and Connecticut. But the state that lost the largest percentage of its residents is West Virginia, which ranks only 15th.

Meanwhile, the state with the lowest tax burden, Alaska, is the 48th most populous. It lost more of its residents in the past year than any state besides West Virginia.

“The kneejerk tax thing doesn’t work because you can find high-tax areas that are growing in the U.S. and you can find low-tax areas that are declining,” demographer Rob Paral told the Better Government Association. “I know that gets lost on people who want to blame taxes on everything.”

The tax argument gets sketchier when you look at who’s leaving Illinois. In a recent Bloomberg column titled “Goodbye, New York, California, and Hello… Where?,” Justin Fox observed that all three states were losing low-income residents faster than rich people, concluding “[i]t’s not all to Texas and it’s not all about taxes”:

Domestic migration statistics are frequently cited as evidence of the failures of blue-state governance, in particular the higher taxes imposed by states that are losing lots of residents. There’s something to that — income-tax-free Florida sure is attracting a lot of affluent people from Illinois and New York, and a recent study of high-income California taxpayers concluded that a 2012 income tax increase there did in fact drive some away. But California, Illinois and New York have all experienced bigger per capita personal income gains than the nation as a whole since the beginning of 2010, and all saw taxpayers with incomes below $50,000 overrepresented among the leavers from 2011 through 2018. These departures may indicate failures of governance as well, but it’s a different set of governance failures, presumably related more to housing costs, commutes and job opportunities than taxes per se.

Demographer Alden Loury agrees, telling this magazine last year that “[Chicago] is losing more of its lower-income folks and gaining more higher-income workers.” That trend is the consequence of a “demographic inversion,” in which a once–working class city attracts wealthy residents, while low-earning residents are forced into outlying neighborhoods and suburbs — or, on a larger scale, other states.

In fact, Illinois’s most notable demographic shift is not the loss of wealthy, highly taxed residents, but of its black middle class, which has been shrinking for decades due to neighborhood disinvestment, rising property values, and lack of economic opportunity.

A comparison of 2010 Census data with the 2013–2017 American Community Survey shows that Illinois’s white, Latino, and Asian populations all increased, while its black population declined from 1,866,414 to 1,833,501. According to the same data, Illinois saw a decline in households earning less than $100,000 a year, while those earning more than $200,000 increased by 50 percent. The state’s real per capita income is also on an upward trend, from $43,208 in 2010 to $53,727 in 2019.

Meanwhile, September data analysis by the Tribune found two things: that many black Illinoisans departed for nearby Indiana, and that Chicago alone is driving much of the state’s population loss (though the metro area continues to draw black residents away from the city).

It’s possible that high taxes were a burden on those residents who fled Illinois, but it’s not clear that lowering the tax rate would solve the problem, either. In fact, the structural issues facing low-income residents are ones that would most benefit from a government cash infusion. One thing’s for certain: Whoever has been leaving Illinois, it’s certainly not the state’s C suite.


Illinois has never been a healthier state. Intelligent, motivated, successful people have been moving to our state while downstate charity cases have been moving to Indiana and Missouri.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:04 pm 
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IMU wrote:
http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/January-2020/Illinois-Is-Not-Losing-Its-Highly-Taxed-Residents/

Only Poor People Move Out of Illinois for Other States

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Illinois lost more residents than any other state in the 2010s. The reason, according to the Illinois Policy Institute, Wall Street Journal, and Chicago Tribune editorial board, is that it’s taxing them away.


Now there’s a murderer’s row or progressive thought :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:20 pm 
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Do the intelligent and motivated people plan to stay? or are they moving back to Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa once they have kids? I hope they stay.

I'm really trying not to get down on the future of Chicago. I want to believe we'll always have enough going for us here that it'll never get Detroit/Buffalo bad. And places like Houston and Northern Virginia can't grow outward and outward forever, it's a horrific drain on resources.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:07 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Texas is awesome
No, it really isn't. Just got back from there in fact and my short trip only confirmed my opinion.

Was great when I lived there for a year. I'll probably consider moving back at some point.
You could live there for the next 30 years and you'll still be considered a Yankee (ie inferior).


Huh?

Not sure where you were at in the state. Houston is arguably the most diverse city in the world and the running joke is about 10% of the population is actually from Houston.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:29 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Texas is awesome
No, it really isn't. Just got back from there in fact and my short trip only confirmed my opinion.

Was great when I lived there for a year. I'll probably consider moving back at some point.
You could live there for the next 30 years and you'll still be considered a Yankee (ie inferior).


Huh?

Not sure where you were at in the state. Houston is arguably the most diverse city in the world and the running joke is about 10% of the population is actually from Houston.

Houston fucking sucks, but hey, at least they aren't Atlanta.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:36 pm 
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Houston, too drivey.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:27 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Do the intelligent and motivated people plan to stay? or are they moving back to Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa once they have kids? I hope they stay.

I'm really trying not to get down on the future of Chicago. I want to believe we'll always have enough going for us here that it'll never get Detroit/Buffalo bad. And places like Houston and Northern Virginia can't grow outward and outward forever, it's a horrific drain on resources.

Most likely. Chicago is a world-class city. For those that take advantage of its offerings it’s a great value compared to coastal cities like NYC, DC, LA, SF, etc.

The people leaving IL are dudes like JBills or Ogie who live an easily replicated exurb lifestyle. That can be done in any state. Is there really any difference between St. Charles and Smyrna TN?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:51 am 
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Good luck!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:58 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Do the intelligent and motivated people plan to stay? or are they moving back to Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Iowa once they have kids? I hope they stay.

I'm really trying not to get down on the future of Chicago. I want to believe we'll always have enough going for us here that it'll never get Detroit/Buffalo bad. And places like Houston and Northern Virginia can't grow outward and outward forever, it's a horrific drain on resources.

Most likely. Chicago is a world-class city. For those that take advantage of its offerings it’s a great value compared to coastal cities like NYC, DC, LA, SF, etc.

The people leaving IL are dudes like JBills or Ogie who live an easily replicated exurb lifestyle. That can be done in any state. Is there really any difference between St. Charles and Smyrna TN?


The article says IL is losing middle class blacks, not exactly your typical exurb resident and certainly not something we should be proud of.

But you are correct that in if you like big city life Chicago is a reasonable place to live. People with dollars can overcome the high expense, and for NY’ers it is basically a ritual to live just enough days in their Florida home to avoid NY income taxes.

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