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Which do you believe?
Shut it down indefinitely 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Lift restrictions on personal liberty on May 1 89%  89%  [ 33 ]
Total votes : 37
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:22 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
maskers are giving dirty looks to all the non-maskers instead of minding their own fucking business.

I encountered this while out for a walk Saturday.

I make sure I keep distance / cross the street when encountering others, etc, but an older couple cycling on the street gave us the ole staredown.

Fuck em.


Yep! The masks don't even matter unless people coughs or sneezes directly in your face.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:25 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Nardi wrote:
The Orange Twat. I won't forgive him for not using the UK model(before they caved), and the Sweden model.

Could imagine the political shitstorm though?

I am absolutely with you. The vast majority of countries picked the wrong tactic. Unless you are blessed with splendid geographic isolation like New Zealand, who can reliably close itself off and purge the thing out in a month, the way forward was to just let it run its course. You can count the countries who did the right thing on one hand.

And when you ask why they did the wrong the only plausible answer is politics. If you appear to have done nothing your opposition will crucify you, governing by campaigning meets "let no crisis go to waste". We all lose.

The blanket shutdown was due to lack of prep. If there was a national/regional/state infrastructure/plan in Feb I doubt these governors would've performed seppuku to their states.

Most governors aren't creative problem solvers.

There was a plan, it was for them to sell off all their securities and get out of the market before tanking the global economy.


MANY succeeded and should be fired the next time they're on the ballot.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:51 pm 
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IMU wrote:
The unemployment rate is estimated at between 13% and 15% right now. The highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression. It is projected to near 20% by the end of the month, especially if any extensions of stay at home orders are considered.

A death sentence of another kind.

I was on this six weeks ago. I thought you were fast track.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:56 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I think it will, Kirkwood. It won't happen overnight, but Dr's and nurses are going to use this as a springboard to getting what they want.

Healthcare has gone towards patient satisfaction vs patient treatment. I don't really give a shit I snap my ankle and the Dr who treats me is a surly bastard or not. But the guy who is the CEO of Advocate does care. If I'm fixed up good is what matters.



IDK

I follow a doctor on the twitters. Said, after this he will close shop. Claims independent doctors will all be closed and it will be all extension of hospitals.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:02 pm 
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IMU wrote:
The unemployment rate is estimated at between 13% and 15% right now. The highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression. It is projected to near 20% by the end of the month, especially if any extensions of stay at home orders are considered.

A death sentence of another kind.

It will go way down quickly. Unemployment payouts are remarkably generous now. Average payout is the equivalent of 52k a year right now.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:12 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
IMU wrote:
The unemployment rate is estimated at between 13% and 15% right now. The highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression. It is projected to near 20% by the end of the month, especially if any extensions of stay at home orders are considered.

A death sentence of another kind.

It will go way down quickly. Unemployment payouts are remarkably generous now. Average payout is the equivalent of 52k a year right now.


Which means that it could take until September for things to go down.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:21 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
This will be the interesting thing to watch. With ~20M+ people laid off that's a ton of people now without health insurance. For people with commercial insurance, their premiums are going to skyrocket as insurers work to price and recoup the costs related to COVID.

Trump could win in a landslide and kill the Democratic Party forever if he started pushing for Medicare For All. Do it for the Small Business Owners.


God that would be sweet. Trump could sell the shit out of the idea. Just call it Freedom Medicine and people would lap it up.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:24 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wow. 21-0 for lifting the restrictions.

I guess Ogie hasn't voted yet.

I never favored restrictions. In fact, I laughed at you guys because my state was able to avoid them.

The correct way to handle this from day 1 was to have adequate testing like SK and Taiwan, two places that managed to weather this without complete shutdowns while also controlling the outbreak.

The US had nearly 2 months to try that route, but instead those in charge decided to put their head in the sand and pretend the virus didn't exist when priority #1 should have been testing those who had a travel history or had been in contact with the few cases we had at the time.

My state still doesn't have a lockdown or stay at home order. We got to enjoy our Saturday out. People kept their distance and it worked out nicely.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:27 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wow. 21-0 for lifting the restrictions.

I guess Ogie hasn't voted yet.

I never favored restrictions. In fact, I laughed at you guys because my state was able to avoid them.

The correct way to handle this from day 1 was to have adequate testing like SK and Taiwan, two places that managed to weather this without complete shutdowns while also controlling the outbreak.


Look at the sacrifices the rest of us made so that your precious mountain bike trails weren't shut down. You can thank us all with a lovely steak dinner.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:27 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wow. 21-0 for lifting the restrictions.

I guess Ogie hasn't voted yet.

I never favored restrictions. In fact, I laughed at you guys because my state was able to avoid them.

The correct way to handle this from day 1 was to have adequate testing like SK and Taiwan, two places that managed to weather this without complete shutdowns while also controlling the outbreak.


Look at the sacrifices the rest of us made so that your precious mountain bike trails weren't shut down. You can thank us all with a lovely steak dinner.

You guys made that sacrifice yourself when you voted for the dyke and fatso.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:30 pm 
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I've only ever wrote in Lara Croft.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:27 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:45 am 
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for me its X amount of lives lost vs Y amount of lives economically ruined. I believe Y is clearly going to be a much larger number than X

keep in mind that it is likely that over 800,000 people have died in the US to date (2.5-2.8 million people die each year) from everything to cancer, old age, car acidents, heart attacks, etc etc . the 20k dead from corona is 2% of that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:47 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

That dude has been having a lot of stuff on twitter. I have also heard him on Tucker Carlson. He has some good stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:50 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

That dude has been having a lot of stuff on twitter. I have also heard him on Tucker Carlson. He has some good stuff.



The reason I'm paying attention to him is he's not some Alex Jones whacko. He's a former NYT guy himself.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:53 am 
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This is absolutely correct. There is no shortage of healthcare workers, and we gutted all other functions of a hospital not related to COVID treatment. A big ole fucking scam because we couldn't stomach what amounted to a strong flu season.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:59 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wow. 21-0 for lifting the restrictions.

I guess Ogie hasn't voted yet.
I never favored restrictions. In fact, I laughed at you guys because my state was able to avoid them.

The correct way to handle this from day 1 was to have adequate testing like SK and Taiwan, two places that managed to weather this without complete shutdowns while also controlling the outbreak.
Look at the sacrifices the rest of us made so that your precious mountain bike trails weren't shut down. You can thank us all with a lovely steak dinner.
You guys made that sacrifice yourself when you voted for the dyke and fatso.
You said we were going to be worse than Italy, which would have resulted in nationwide shutdowns for weeks on end. Maybe you didn't favor restrictions, but you were cheering for them pretty loudly.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:43 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wow. 21-0 for lifting the restrictions.

I guess Ogie hasn't voted yet.
I never favored restrictions. In fact, I laughed at you guys because my state was able to avoid them.

The correct way to handle this from day 1 was to have adequate testing like SK and Taiwan, two places that managed to weather this without complete shutdowns while also controlling the outbreak.
Look at the sacrifices the rest of us made so that your precious mountain bike trails weren't shut down. You can thank us all with a lovely steak dinner.
You guys made that sacrifice yourself when you voted for the dyke and fatso.
You said we were going to be worse than Italy, which would have resulted in nationwide shutdowns for weeks on end. Maybe you didn't favor restrictions, but you were cheering for them pretty loudly.

We have not been or ever will be close to Italy. They have quintuple the deaths per capita. We were not exponential at any point but very early when we were talking 10 to 100s of deaths. That's pretty much like comparing the first week of MLB batting stats and extrapolating them for the entire season.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:18 pm 
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another bit of information i would be interested in is rural vs suburb/small metro vs urban.

30% of the population live in these sardine can urban areas. the largest amount of infections are in NYC/NJ/Boston/Detroit/LA/Chicago where peopel are packed in like sardines. move into the submetro and rural areas its a fraction of the infections for the other 70% of the population. they account for only like 25% of infections as of april 2 (some citylab article i read a few days ago). so 30% account for 70% and the other 70% account for the remaining 30% basically.

you can use that information along with Age "discrimination" to allow rural/small metro get back to some level of business. they don't affect the GDP for sure and there is supply line stuff that has to be sorted out but common sense can prevail. if your population density is 2000+ per sqr mile shut it down or somethign like that. otherwise, take precaution but open this crap back up.

there is no reason why rock island county with a population density of 150 per sqr mile should suffer because chicagos is 11,000 per sqr mile


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:21 pm 
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I had to talk to my MD last night and had to go get a precautionary chest X-ray today (negative) but didn't need to see her. She's in her late 30s, MILF with three kids, probably liberal. I'm pretty sure that she's from a Rust Belt state originally.

And she is fucking furious about the fact that so many people with minor heart attacks and strokes are not going to the ER because the media has scared them. She started to go on a full out rant. Came really close to saying "don't their lives matter?" and caught herself.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:33 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
I had to talk to my MD last night and had to go get a precautionary chest X-ray today (negative) but didn't need to see her. She's in her late 30s, MILF with three kids, probably liberal. I'm pretty sure that she's from a Rust Belt state originally.

And she is fucking furious about the fact that so many people with minor heart attacks and strokes are not going to the ER because the media has scared them. She started to go on a full out rant. Came really close to saying "don't their lives matter?" and caught herself.


I am glad that you shared this because I am very pissed also. My right knee is fucked up right now and is hurting like hell and I cannot get treated other than by phone with people who I have never met. I think that this shit is totally bullshit and a total over-reaction based on a terrible scare put on us by China and the WHO. The hospitals in this country are hapless right now in the treating of people who have significant medical problems other than this virus. IT really pisses me off. I have had a family doctor for over 15 years who has treated me and my family and I cannot get in touch with him. They even closed the fucking clinic that he resided in. I have no notion what the hell he is doing now but he isn't treating me and my family because of this fucking virus. Its really fucked up.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:36 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
the dyke and fatso.

That was the working title for Bob Smigel's 'The Baby, The Immigrant, and The Guy On Mushrooms'.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:36 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
I am glad that you shared this because I am very pissed also. My right knee is fucked up right now is hurting like hell


No it isn’t


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:49 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
I had to talk to my MD last night and had to go get a precautionary chest X-ray today (negative) but didn't need to see her. She's in her late 30s, MILF with three kids, probably liberal. I'm pretty sure that she's from a Rust Belt state originally.

And she is fucking furious about the fact that so many people with minor heart attacks and strokes are not going to the ER because the media has scared them. She started to go on a full out rant. Came really close to saying "don't their lives matter?" and caught herself.


I am glad that you shared this because I am very pissed also. My right knee is fucked up right now and is hurting like hell and I cannot get treated other than by phone with people who I have never met. I think that this shit is totally bullshit and a total over-reaction based on a terrible scare put on us by China and the WHO. The hospitals in this country are hapless right now in the treating of people who have significant medical problems other than this virus. IT really pisses me off. I have had a family doctor for over 15 years who has treated me and my family and I cannot get in touch with him. They even closed the fucking clinic that he resided in. I have no notion what the hell he is doing now but he isn't treating me and my family because of this fucking virus. Its really fucked up.

Kaiser? If so, I haven't heard good things about them from coworkers.

Don't they have EMR such as Epic/MyChart? One thing I insisted on when I moved was a practice where the MDs are on call for themselves. My regular quarterly appointment next week got converted to a teleconference a month ago, but she told me then to use the EMR message function or call in if anything was going sideways.

When I lived in Illinois, I went to a large suburban group that is at probably a dozen hospitals (DuPage Medical). Generally excellent care, several after hours clinics with near-ER capabilities, their own surgical centers. But what I hated was that they used hospitalists in lieu of your regular internist. Totally pissed me off when my mom was having her difficult last year with cancer and was hospitalized several times.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:06 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wow. 21-0 for lifting the restrictions.

I guess Ogie hasn't voted yet.
I never favored restrictions. In fact, I laughed at you guys because my state was able to avoid them.

The correct way to handle this from day 1 was to have adequate testing like SK and Taiwan, two places that managed to weather this without complete shutdowns while also controlling the outbreak.
Look at the sacrifices the rest of us made so that your precious mountain bike trails weren't shut down. You can thank us all with a lovely steak dinner.
You guys made that sacrifice yourself when you voted for the dyke and fatso.
You said we were going to be worse than Italy, which would have resulted in nationwide shutdowns for weeks on end. Maybe you didn't favor restrictions, but you were cheering for them pretty loudly.

New York state has surpassed Italy as the deadliest single region for the virus outside of Wuhan (using the real numbers for Wuhan that is)

NY state has lost 552 people per million in this outbreak vs. 348 per million in Italy

NY State is still losing 750-800 per day, and that's likely an under count as deaths in the home aren't being counted.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:19 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Wow. 21-0 for lifting the restrictions.

I guess Ogie hasn't voted yet.
I never favored restrictions. In fact, I laughed at you guys because my state was able to avoid them.

The correct way to handle this from day 1 was to have adequate testing like SK and Taiwan, two places that managed to weather this without complete shutdowns while also controlling the outbreak.
Look at the sacrifices the rest of us made so that your precious mountain bike trails weren't shut down. You can thank us all with a lovely steak dinner.
You guys made that sacrifice yourself when you voted for the dyke and fatso.
You said we were going to be worse than Italy, which would have resulted in nationwide shutdowns for weeks on end. Maybe you didn't favor restrictions, but you were cheering for them pretty loudly.

New York state has surpassed Italy as the deadliest single region for the virus outside of Wuhan (using the real numbers for Wuhan that is)

NY state has lost 552 people per million in this outbreak vs. 348 per million in Italy

NY State is still losing 750-800 per day, and that's likely an under count as deaths in the home aren't being counted.

NY state vs the country of Italy huh? Ok lets go hardest hit province in Italy. Lombardy. 1142 deaths per million

NEXT


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:26 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
New York state has surpassed Italy as the deadliest single region for the virus outside of Wuhan (using the real numbers for Wuhan that is)

NY state has lost 552 people per million in this outbreak vs. 348 per million in Italy

NY State is still losing 750-800 per day, and that's likely an under count as deaths in the home aren't being counted.

NY state vs the country of Italy huh? Ok lets go hardest hit province in Italy. Lombardy. 1142 deaths per million

NEXT

NY State will be there in 2 weeks, perhaps less, and if you really want to break it down, look at NYC and compare that to Lombardy. NYC accounts for roughly 2/3 of the deaths in the state.

Oh and let's wait until they tabulate the deaths at home, which haven't been added to NY's count.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:29 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
New York state has surpassed Italy as the deadliest single region for the virus outside of Wuhan (using the real numbers for Wuhan that is)

NY state has lost 552 people per million in this outbreak vs. 348 per million in Italy

NY State is still losing 750-800 per day, and that's likely an under count as deaths in the home aren't being counted.

NY state vs the country of Italy huh? Ok lets go hardest hit province in Italy. Lombardy. 1142 deaths per million

NEXT

NY State will be there in 2 weeks, perhaps less, and if you really want to break it down, look at NYC and compare that to Lombardy. NYC accounts for roughly 2/3 of the deaths in the state.

Oh and let's wait until they tabulate the deaths at home, which haven't been added to NY's count.

No, When you get your NYC, I'll get Milan. Why do you insist on comparing apples to oranges?

Are those the 3700 non-tested dead you are hoping for to be added? That was unclear to me whether they had already fake counted those or were about to fake count them.


Last edited by Nardi on Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:39 am 
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IMU wrote:
The unemployment rate is estimated at between 13% and 15% right now. The highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression. It is projected to near 20% by the end of the month, especially if any extensions of stay at home orders are considered.

A death sentence of another kind.

The major difference is unemployment benefits right now are on average $1000 a week. That's not bad for sitting at home.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:57 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
IMU wrote:
The unemployment rate is estimated at between 13% and 15% right now. The highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression. It is projected to near 20% by the end of the month, especially if any extensions of stay at home orders are considered.

A death sentence of another kind.

The major difference is unemployment benefits right now are on average $1000 a week. That's not bad for sitting at home.

Can you give me a breakdown of that $1000 a week?

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