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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:26 am 
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If you think the Pippen contract was bad, and that Jerry treated him like shit, then you really need to take a look at the Frank Thomas contract with the "diminishing skills clause."

Fuck Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:27 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
Uncle Jerry did NOTHING wrong until the final season.


Telling Pippeen "too bad so sad" was a typical (((tribe))) move.


That's Pippen's fault. Even Michael knew Jerry don't renegotiate.


Jordan was vastly underpaid during those years and never made it much of an issue. Think his deal was 8 years 24 mil early on and he never asked for a renegotiation. He made a ton of money off the court through endorsements though. Probably had an impact

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:32 am 
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This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:35 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.

Reinsdorf always cries poor, even when he's making money hand over fist.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:43 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.


Calling bullshit on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:45 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.


Calling bullshit on this.

yep

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:55 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.


More like they were printing money and adding long term value.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:12 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
MJ was so obviously great that the team was sold after he was drafted.

If I remember correctly, Bulls ownership pre-Reinsdorf was a rickety consortium of the Wirtzes, Lamar Hunt, George Steinbrenner, and a handful of other dudes who were getting sued for some kind of screwing with the Milwaukee Bucks. The Wirtzes owned the Stadium in full and probably wanted to collect rent on Bulls games that no one went to instead of actually operating them. I'm guessing the wheels had been in motion to sell the team for a while.

Of course but the point is that even those guys aren't selling the team if they know that MJ is going to be the greatest player of all time to the point that Jerry doesn't get that much credit for winning as many ir more titles in the 90s than all but 2 teams have won in their history.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:15 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.


Calling bullshit on this.

yep


well, that's what he told the IRS

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:17 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.


More like they were printing money and adding long term value.


The Bulls sold out that stadium for close to two decades after the championship run based almost exclusively on the good will created by Jordan

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:19 am 
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Towards the end of the second "3-Peat" the were demanding pretty long commitments from season ticket holders so they were cashing in on that while serving up a product of "Kornel Davids" after 1998.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:25 am 
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Krause's post Jordan rebuild was a case of everything that could go wrong did. He was at least smart enough to know that you bottom out for a shot at the top pick rather than get the 7th pick and remaining semi-competitive. Think about the draft picks he made those with those high picks:

Elton Brand, Marcus Fizer, Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler. None of those guys were franchise makers. A lot of that is luck. Some of it he should have known better. I mean he won six titles because there was an ultra-competitive centerpiece who demanded excellence. Eddy Curry demanded a second helping of nachos.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:25 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Towards the end of the second "3-Peat" the were demanding pretty long commitments from season ticket holders so they were cashing in on that while serving up a product of "Kornel Davids" after 1998.


I remember driving down Dundee Road, listening to Jonathan Hood post-game on WSCR after the Bulls scored a humiliating 49 points (still an NBA record)...led by Kornel David.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:32 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.

As with the "money-losing" 2010 Blackhawks, Reinsdorf wasn't losing money owning half of the United Center and its parking lots.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:51 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.

As with the "money-losing" 2010 Blackhawks, Reinsdorf wasn't losing money owning half of the United Center and its parking lots.

or with a sizable share of their RSN

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:02 am 
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The losing money thing does sound like bullshit and it shouldn't be too hard to verify that. On the other hand Reinsdorf did pay for the league's highest payroll by far for the last two championship seasons. Can't find the 1996 one. So the cheap thing doesn't line up with what actually happened during most of the second three peat. You're definitely seeing the cheap things from 2012sh to now.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:04 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The losing money thing does sound like bullshit and it shouldn't be too hard to verify that. On the other hand Reinsdorf did pay for the league's highest payroll by far for the last two championship seasons. Can't find the 1996 one. So the cheap thing doesn't line up with what actually happened during most of the second three peat. You're definitely seeing the cheap things from 2012sh to now.

As Good Dolphin mentioned, they may have reported an income loss to the IRS but that's it. There were hundreds of millions in the coffers at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:12 am 
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I think they were done anyway. Kind of glad we didn't have to see the slow disintegration period.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:24 am 
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Nas wrote:
He inherited Jordan, but he managed to put 2 teams around him that led to multiple 3Peats. Has there been a more successful owner in the past 30 years? I think Uncle Jerry gets a lot of unfair criticism and no one wants to give him credit for anything.

A kid from Wilmington, NC made him a billionaire. When it came time for thanks, Michael had to go to Washington for a piece of a franchise. Finally it was David Stern and the league who ended up thanking him.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:33 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.

As with the "money-losing" 2010 Blackhawks, Reinsdorf wasn't losing money owning half of the United Center and its parking lots.

or with a sizable share of their RSN

Did the Bulls own any of the original SportsChannel/Fox Sports Net? I'm guessing they didn't, since they were always trying to get as many of their games on WGN as the courts would allow.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:28 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
He inherited Jordan, but he managed to put 2 teams around him that led to multiple 3Peats. Has there been a more successful owner in the past 30 years? I think Uncle Jerry gets a lot of unfair criticism and no one wants to give him credit for anything.

A kid from Wilmington, NC made him a billionaire. When it came time for thanks, Michael had to go to Washington for a piece of a franchise. Finally it was David Stern and the league who ended up thanking him.


Why did he owe Jordan a piece of the team?

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:03 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
He inherited Jordan, but he managed to put 2 teams around him that led to multiple 3Peats. Has there been a more successful owner in the past 30 years? I think Uncle Jerry gets a lot of unfair criticism and no one wants to give him credit for anything.

A kid from Wilmington, NC made him a billionaire. When it came time for thanks, Michael had to go to Washington for a piece of a franchise. Finally it was David Stern and the league who ended up thanking him.


Why did he owe Jordan a piece of the team?

Owe? Did say owe? I said time for thanks. Reinny paid 9 million for the team. He only put up 25% of his own dough. Jordan built him a stadium too.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:13 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Towards the end of the second "3-Peat" the were demanding pretty long commitments from season ticket holders so they were cashing in on that while serving up a product of "Kornel Davids" after 1998.


I remember driving down Dundee Road, listening to Jonathan Hood post-game on WSCR after the Bulls scored a humiliating 49 points (still an NBA record)...led by Kornel David.

Tied for 3rd in lowest score...the Jazz against the Bulls in the 1998 finals with 54 pts.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:03 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.

As with the "money-losing" 2010 Blackhawks, Reinsdorf wasn't losing money owning half of the United Center and its parking lots.

or with a sizable share of their RSN

Did the Bulls own any of the original SportsChannel/Fox Sports Net? I'm guessing they didn't, since they were always trying to get as many of their games on WGN as the courts would allow.

It was an evolution from SportsVision, right? That would mean that a good chunk of the ownership would have been Reinsdorf/Einhorn even though they gave up majority ownership by then.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:28 am 
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Starting to remember some of this stuff now. Pippen's first contract was renegotiated. They tore it and extended so that he could make more money on the final 2 years of it. As part of the extension 5 additional years were added to it. At the time Reinsdorf told Pippen that he shouldn't take it because if he did then the deal wasn't going to be renegotiated again.

By 1995 Pippen's contract couldn't be renegotiated anyway. The players and owners signed a new collective bargaining agreement which forbade the renegotiation of contracts.
There is little that Reinsdorf could be blamed for in this. Pippen signed a bad deal. That's on him. Jordan was the most underpaid basketball player in the history of the league. He never publicly complained nor did he ever ask for his contract to be renegotiated. His deal was much worse than Pippen's yet he sucked it up and played. Except for the nearly 2 years that he sat out for baseball. If I remember it correctly Reinsdorf still paid him his Bulls salary while he was in retirement. Could be wrong but that was how I remember it.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
Quote:
Under one of the provisions of the new six-year plan, which NBA players also have approved, Pippen can't have his contract renegotiated. Pippen has three years left on his current contract and will be paid $3 million this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:48 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
This morning M&H intimated that the Bulls were losing money in the last two Jordan years. If true, I wouldn't doubt that was a major reason they broke it up.

As with the "money-losing" 2010 Blackhawks, Reinsdorf wasn't losing money owning half of the United Center and its parking lots.

or with a sizable share of their RSN

Did the Bulls own any of the original SportsChannel/Fox Sports Net? I'm guessing they didn't, since they were always trying to get as many of their games on WGN as the courts would allow.

It was an evolution from SportsVision, right? That would mean that a good chunk of the ownership would have been Reinsdorf/Einhorn even though they gave up majority ownership by then.

Wikipedia says they sold the whole thing to Cablevision (the hated Dolans), who later sold the SportsChannel family to Fox (though the Chicago channel is now long dead). Remember, that was the whole idea beyond Comcast SportsNet when that launched, that now the teams would have ownership stakes in their RSN. So Reinsdorf and Einhorn must have cashed out big on that one.

I think we discussed a few months ago that Reinsdorf and WGN were trying to get pretty much the entire local schedule on the superstation but David Stern and the other owners (except Turner, who was pulling the same stunt with TBS and the Hawks) fought them on it for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:03 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Starting to remember some of this stuff now. Pippen's first contract was renegotiated. They tore it and extended so that he could make more money on the final 2 years of it. As part of the extension 5 additional years were added to it. At the time Reinsdorf told Pippen that he shouldn't take it because if he did then the deal wasn't going to be renegotiated again.

By 1995 Pippen's contract couldn't be renegotiated anyway. The players and owners signed a new collective bargaining agreement which forbade the renegotiation of contracts.
There is little that Reinsdorf could be blamed for in this. Pippen signed a bad deal. That's on him. Jordan was the most underpaid basketball player in the history of the league. He never publicly complained nor did he ever ask for his contract to be renegotiated. His deal was much worse than Pippen's yet he sucked it up and played. Except for the nearly 2 years that he sat out for baseball. If I remember it correctly Reinsdorf still paid him his Bulls salary while he was in retirement. Could be wrong but that was how I remember it.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
Quote:
Under one of the provisions of the new six-year plan, which NBA players also have approved, Pippen can't have his contract renegotiated. Pippen has three years left on his current contract and will be paid $3 million this season.

When a guy's franchise's value goes up 250 times his original investment and revenues are over $200 million a year, is there a time for thanks? Say, for example, just in a small way, let the boys defend their dynasty? Let the fans who paid the freight, see the boys defend their dynasty? Or should everybody eat shit and have to listen to "Players don't win championships, organizations do"?


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:14 am 
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I offer you this deal:

An owner is going to purchase 2 Chicago franchises and own them for 40 years. He will win 7 titles between them. The last 10 years of that ownership will be very frustrating.

Do you take the deal? Do you believe any two Chicago franchises in the next 40 years will combine for more than 7 titles?

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:20 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I offer you this deal:

An owner is going to purchase 2 Chicago franchises and own them for 40 years. He will win 7 titles between them. The last 10 years of that ownership will be very frustrating.

Do you take the deal? Do you believe any two Chicago franchises in the next 40 years will combine for more than 7 titles?

The Bulls were going to win multiple titles no matter what because it's the NBA and it's pretty damn easy to win titles in basketball when you have the GOAT. Fucking Bill Wirtz could have won championships with MJ.

Now with that out of the way, let me ask this.

An owner is going to purchase a baseball team and own them for 40 years. He will make the playoffs 5 times in that period despite the number of teams in the AL qualifying for posteason play increasing from 2 to 4 to 5 during that span. In 4 of those 5 playoff appearances, the team will be out in the first round. He will continually be near the bottom of the league in salary despite playing in the country's #3 market in a division of midsize market midgets. Do you take the deal?

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Reinsdorf
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I offer you this deal:

An owner is going to purchase 2 Chicago franchises and own them for 40 years. He will win 7 titles between them. The last 10 years of that ownership will be very frustrating.

Do you take the deal? Do you believe any two Chicago franchises in the next 40 years will combine for more than 7 titles?


Get a load of Brick Bernstein here!


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