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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:05 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Completely anecdotal but here is how it looks for us.

4th grader in public school and Kindergartener in private school.

Public - Once a week meeting with kids for 45 minutes. Once a week email with assignments for the week and more on Google Classroom. Teachers available via email with spotty response rates.

Private - No meetings. Daily emails with assignments and messages to the kids.

Different needs obviously for both.


I think that the individual teacher has a lot to do with how kids and parents respond.


At the Secondary level it has much more to do with whether the grades actually matter or not.


Selling your students short is a bad look for you.

And anyone else.


Being presumptuous and rather uninformed should be a bad look for you but I understand that you're rather used to it by now.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:09 pm 
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The Man wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Starting to hear rumblings that ELearning will be the order of the day for next school year.

May not be a way to avoid it if they don't get a handle on this


The wifes union told her to start preparing for eLearning in the fall. I dont think there is any way to try and have these kids together and not expect the infection rates to soar. I know mine are absolutely disgusting and I cant imagine any other grade school or Jr. High kids are very sanitary. Maybe they start to worry about cleanliness in HS a bit a lot of those kids would probably walk around coughing on each other thinking it is the funniest thing in the world.


Yep. Kids are crazy like that. There are going to be a ton of fights simply from kids coughing on one another in a joking manner.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:12 pm 
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K Effective wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
https://sec1.isbe.net/ELISPublicInquiry/NormalPages/Educators.aspx

You can search anyone's certification on that link.


Cliff notes version, conns, please. Jeebus that thing is archaic.


I was looking for a stat like: 47% of private school teachers hold certificates in their subject matter as compared to 54% of public school instructors.

I just made that up as an example, clearly. I don't think either is true, much less what was originally posted as "MOST are not qualified" to teach.


In CPS 100% of the teachers currently providing instruction are State Board Certified. Majority of the subs are too. That doesn't include charters. The overwhelming majority of their staff is not certified.

As far as Private Schools go I'm comfortable with that assessment.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:15 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Starting to hear rumblings that ELearning will be the order of the day for next school year.

May not be a way to avoid it if they don't get a handle on this

I just do not see how that is even possible. It is basically just punting on our kids education for a year. So many are not capable of doing this and will get nothing.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:24 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Starting to hear rumblings that ELearning will be the order of the day for next school year.

May not be a way to avoid it if they don't get a handle on this

I just do not see how that is even possible. It is basically just punting on our kids education for a year. So many are not capable of doing this and will get nothing.


With scientists and doctors saying that there will be a recurrence of this in the fall it may be the only solution. It's a bad situation altogether but public health and public safety supersedes education in situations such as this. They have to come up with a treatment for this. If not that then we have to come up with an effective form of testing. You cannot just walk in as if this doesn't exist anymore.

We are at 50,000 dead in a mere 4-5 weeks. What do you think the numbers would be if we were to simply open society up? 100,000? 150,000? 50,000 even with social controls in place.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:39 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I just do not see how that is even possible. It is basically just punting on our kids education for a year. So many are not capable of doing this and will get nothing.


Hmmmmm…….


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:48 pm 
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long time guy wrote:

Considering that you have done nothing but offend everyone in the educational system for the past 4 weeks Ifeel quite comfortable making that remark.
You constantly claim that teachers do not care simply because they aren't willing to place themselves in an environment in which it is likely that they would contract a highly contagious disease.

I have previously attempted to explain that social distancing is impossible in a public school situation and not once have I seen you take it into account. I just told you that 2 children that I know have already died. Most likely from this. Not once did you reference it. You asked a question regarding why it makes a difference that it may have happened in school? Well because if it happened in school then obviously it was something that could have been avoided.

You even became upset because teachers weren't willing to sign a waiver. I presume simply so that your child can be out of the house. At no point have you ever considered anyone else's perspective but your own. With this being the case it wasn't really difficult to ascertain that you are self absorbed and rather self consumed.

Everyone's life has been effected. Not just yours. And if teachers or students were to succumb because they were placed in an environment that everyone knew was unsafe then their life as well as their loved ones are going to be effected even more.

Schools weren't shut down because of "greedy" teachers or even "incompetent" politicians. Schools were shut down because of the recommendations of people (doctors and scientists) that know and understand a helluva lot more about this than either you or I. Unlike you I tend to trust them and their assessment. If schools were opened and one of your children were to succumb because they contracted the virus there is no doubt that you would blast both the school and the system. You know what? you should because they placed your child in an unsafe and unhealthy environment. After you finish blaming them the next person that you should blame is yourself for choosing to do exactly the same thing.


okay. We are all gonna die. but you get paid so all is good and you'll be fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:54 pm 
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long time guy wrote:

Everyone's life has been effected. Not just yours. And if teachers or students were to succumb because they were placed in an environment that everyone knew was unsafe then their life as well as their loved ones are going to be effected even more.

Schools weren't shut down because of "greedy" teachers or even "incompetent" politicians. Schools were shut down because of the recommendations of people (doctors and scientists) that know and understand a helluva lot more about this than either you or I. Unlike you I tend to trust them and their assessment. If schools were opened and one of your children were to succumb because they contracted the virus there is no doubt that you would blast both the school and the system. You know what? you should because they placed your child in an unsafe and unhealthy environment. After you finish blaming them the next person that you should blame is yourself for choosing to do exactly the same thing.


I don't think your life has been effected, you're fine with not working. I think you are content with how things are and will be. You don't care. If that's the position you want to take that's fine but own it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:58 pm 
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K Effective wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
https://sec1.isbe.net/ELISPublicInquiry/NormalPages/Educators.aspx

You can search anyone's certification on that link.


Cliff notes version, conns, please. Jeebus that thing is archaic.


I was looking for a stat like: 47% of private school teachers hold certificates in their subject matter as compared to 54% of public school instructors.

I just made that up as an example, clearly. I don't think either is true, much less what was originally posted as "MOST are not qualified" to teach.


Arch Diocese is not that high at this point. They started to try and phase out many non certified teachers around 08. However, my friend who has no certification outside of sub cert was principal of a Catholic grammar school as recently as two years ago. They finally replaced her with someone certified. One school I worked at only 3 of the 10 full time teachers were certified. That was over a dozen years ago though. The most recent school I worked at all 10 were certified.

The Catholic high schools have more but no idea how many. They are not going to advertise that. I know a few former Catholic high school head coaches who had teaching degrees but couldn't pass the state tests. One finally passed and is now in a high paying public district. The others got out of teaching and just coach now. A lot of the older Catholic high school teachers who have no plans on leaving just stop getting their license renewed.

Charter schools are were most of the non certified teachers at my former school currently teach.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:01 pm 
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Whats going to happen if there never is a vaccine or its only about 40% successful?

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:01 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Considering that you have done nothing but offend everyone in the educational system for the past 4 weeks Ifeel quite comfortable making that remark.
You constantly claim that teachers do not care simply because they aren't willing to place themselves in an environment in which it is likely that they would contract a highly contagious disease.

I have previously attempted to explain that social distancing is impossible in a public school situation and not once have I seen you take it into account. I just told you that 2 children that I know have already died. Most likely from this. Not once did you reference it. You asked a question regarding why it makes a difference that it may have happened in school? Well because if it happened in school then obviously it was something that could have been avoided.

You even became upset because teachers weren't willing to sign a waiver. I presume simply so that your child can be out of the house. At no point have you ever considered anyone else's perspective but your own. With this being the case it wasn't really difficult to ascertain that you are self absorbed and rather self consumed.

Everyone's life has been effected. Not just yours. And if teachers or students were to succumb because they were placed in an environment that everyone knew was unsafe then their life as well as their loved ones are going to be effected even more.

Schools weren't shut down because of "greedy" teachers or even "incompetent" politicians. Schools were shut down because of the recommendations of people (doctors and scientists) that know and understand a helluva lot more about this than either you or I. Unlike you I tend to trust them and their assessment. If schools were opened and one of your children were to succumb because they contracted the virus there is no doubt that you would blast both the school and the system. You know what? you should because they placed your child in an unsafe and unhealthy environment. After you finish blaming them the next person that you should blame is yourself for choosing to do exactly the same thing.


okay. We are all gonna die. but you get paid so all is good and you'll be fine.


Yeah I will be. Thanks for the (lack of) concern.
If you are so concerned about your children being educated there is a simple and "plausible" solution. Home School them for a year. Problem solved. Subtract the money that you spend on private education and it will be a breeze.


As far as my income streams again don't worry yourself so much. Wouldn't want you to get a migraine from all of the concern. I'm sure you were one of the people complaining during all of the instances in which we were furloughed. Or denied a contractually agreed upon raise because the money wasn't in the budget. Or perhaps you were handwringing when our salary was in effect substantially decreased by Emanuel by having us work more days at longer hrs for exactly the same pay

I'm certain that you were one of the people on the frontline during those MANY instances in which teachers were screwed over as well. Seeing as you have an overriding concern for what's "fair and balanced".


.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:08 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
K Effective wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
https://sec1.isbe.net/ELISPublicInquiry/NormalPages/Educators.aspx

You can search anyone's certification on that link.


Cliff notes version, conns, please. Jeebus that thing is archaic.


I was looking for a stat like: 47% of private school teachers hold certificates in their subject matter as compared to 54% of public school instructors.

I just made that up as an example, clearly. I don't think either is true, much less what was originally posted as "MOST are not qualified" to teach.


In CPS 100% of the teachers currently providing instruction are State Board Certified. Majority of the subs are too. That doesn't include charters. The overwhelming majority of their staff is not certified.

As far as Private Schools go I'm comfortable with that assessment.


IF the CPS is 100% certified, I am impressed. That seems impossible in today's school situation, not Covid, but pre-Covid.

But, you made the remark that the majority of private school teachers are not QUALIFIED to teach, which I think is a wholly different accusation than certification. Perhaps you find the two equivalent, I'm not sure they are.

When my wife began teaching here in MI 33 years ago, all teachers had to get state certified and maintain it with continuing classwork, OR obtain their Masters, which she chose to do. Currently, on a staff of seven, all seven are elem. ed graduates and three have MEs.

About twenty years ago, the State removed the requirement for this certification for private schools, and nearly all subsequent faculty members have done almost no continuing class work. I read into the relief from the certification that, down the line, the State would move toward the voucher system similar to Wisconsin, where private schools can get paid from the property taxes collected from the parents; but they would set a prerequisite that all staff must be certified to receive the state money, and thus reduce the number of private schools eligible by a large percentage. Instead, we have seen a rise of the charter schools, which tap into the state money from the highest-paid districts and funnel it through a corporation. I cannot provide an accurate percentage of certified instructors at these schools.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:11 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Everyone's life has been effected. Not just yours. And if teachers or students were to succumb because they were placed in an environment that everyone knew was unsafe then their life as well as their loved ones are going to be effected even more.

Schools weren't shut down because of "greedy" teachers or even "incompetent" politicians. Schools were shut down because of the recommendations of people (doctors and scientists) that know and understand a helluva lot more about this than either you or I. Unlike you I tend to trust them and their assessment. If schools were opened and one of your children were to succumb because they contracted the virus there is no doubt that you would blast both the school and the system. You know what? you should because they placed your child in an unsafe and unhealthy environment. After you finish blaming them the next person that you should blame is yourself for choosing to do exactly the same thing.


I don't think your life has been effected, you're fine with not working. I think you are content with how things are and will be. You don't care. If that's the position you want to take that's fine but own it.


No I'm dealing with it as most sane and rational people are doing. It's out of my control. I also understand that there are more important things than babysitting your children for you right now.

If they ask me to return to school tomorrow I'd have no problem returning. As far as the actual instruction goes it doesn't really impact me as much as I mostly work on the administrative side these days. And have for the past 15 years or so.

Unlike you I happen to take the opinions of the actual experts into account and not that of a person whose only concern is emptying out her crib at 8 in the morning.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:17 pm 
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long time guy wrote:

No I'm dealing with it as most sane and rational people are doing. It's out of my control. I also understand that there are more important things than babysitting your children for you right now.

If they ask me to return to school tomorrow I'd have no problem returning. As far as the actual instruction goes it doesn't really impact me as much as I mostly work on the administrative side these days. And have for the past 15 years or so.

Unlike you I happen to take the opinions of the actual experts into account and not that of a person whose only concern is emptying out her crib at 8 in the morning.


It's not safe to go to school.

You have contempt for the people you are educating/"helping".


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:21 pm 
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K Effective wrote:
long time guy wrote:
K Effective wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
https://sec1.isbe.net/ELISPublicInquiry/NormalPages/Educators.aspx

You can search anyone's certification on that link.


Cliff notes version, conns, please. Jeebus that thing is archaic.


I was looking for a stat like: 47% of private school teachers hold certificates in their subject matter as compared to 54% of public school instructors.

I just made that up as an example, clearly. I don't think either is true, much less what was originally posted as "MOST are not qualified" to teach.


In CPS 100% of the teachers currently providing instruction are State Board Certified. Majority of the subs are too. That doesn't include charters. The overwhelming majority of their staff is not certified.

As far as Private Schools go I'm comfortable with that assessment.


IF the CPS is 100% certified, I am impressed. That seems impossible in today's school situation, not Covid, but pre-Covid.

But, you made the remark that the majority of private school teachers are not QUALIFIED to teach, which I think is a wholly different accusation than certification. Perhaps you find the two equivalent, I'm not sure they are.



No I equated board certified with actual qualifications. I understand the distinction you are making however. You can be qualified without being certified. I referenced it in terms of certification and not actual training.

As far Certified goes yeah it's that way and has been for years. About 12-15 years ago they changed it. You cannot instruct children or even substitute teach without being Certified in a subject area. The only way you can substitute without being certified is you obtained your certificate prior to rule change. In essence you're grandfathered in.

It's one of the primary reasons that there is a dearth of substitute teachers in many of our schools. Vast majority of substitutes are pull from the displaced teacher pool.

Before you merely needed a Bachelor's degree to substitute and/or teach. They changed it at some point and once they did it had a detrimental effect on the system overall imo. We've lost out on a great number of prospective teachers as a result of the change.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:23 pm 
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K Effective wrote:
long time guy wrote:
K Effective wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
https://sec1.isbe.net/ELISPublicInquiry/NormalPages/Educators.aspx

You can search anyone's certification on that link.


Cliff notes version, conns, please. Jeebus that thing is archaic.


I was looking for a stat like: 47% of private school teachers hold certificates in their subject matter as compared to 54% of public school instructors.

I just made that up as an example, clearly. I don't think either is true, much less what was originally posted as "MOST are not qualified" to teach.


In CPS 100% of the teachers currently providing instruction are State Board Certified. Majority of the subs are too. That doesn't include charters. The overwhelming majority of their staff is not certified.

As far as Private Schools go I'm comfortable with that assessment.


IF the CPS is 100% certified, I am impressed. That seems impossible in today's school situation, not Covid, but pre-Covid.

But, you made the remark that the majority of private school teachers are not QUALIFIED to teach, which I think is a wholly different accusation than certification. Perhaps you find the two equivalent, I'm not sure they are.



No I equated board certified with actual qualifications. I understand the distinction you are making however. You can be qualified without being certified. I referenced it in terms of certification and not actual training.

As far Certified goes yeah it's that way and has been for years. About 12-15 years ago they changed it. You cannot instruct children or even substitute teach without being Certified in a subject area. The only way you can substitute without being certified is you obtained your certificate prior to rule change. In essence you're grandfathered in.

It's one of the primary reasons that there is a dearth of substitute teachers in many of our schools. Vast majority of substitutes are pull from the displaced teacher pool.

Before you merely needed a Bachelor's degree to substitute and/or teach. They changed it at some point and once they did it had a detrimental effect on the system overall imo. We've lost out on a great number of prospective teachers as a result of the change.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:25 pm 
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I have never understood the need for certification to be a substitute. If it is a long term substitute for an illness or something then clearly that is needed, but just to be a fill in here and there it is not needed.

In Missouri you just need 60 hours of college credit.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:26 pm 
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long time guy wrote:

No I'm dealing with it as most sane and rational people are doing. It's out of my control. I also understand that there are more important things than babysitting your children for you right now.

If they ask me to return to school tomorrow I'd have no problem returning. As far as the actual instruction goes it doesn't really impact me as much as I mostly work on the administrative side these days. And have for the past 15 years or so.

Unlike you I happen to take the opinions of the actual experts into account and not that of a person whose only concern is emptying out her crib at 8 in the morning.

Spaulding wrote:
It's not safe to go to school.

All the more reason for you to Home School your children.
Spaulding wrote:
You have contempt for the people you are educating/"helping".


And you have contempt for those unwilling to kill themselves for the purpose of babysitting your child for you. I'd prefer to call it even.

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Last edited by long time guy on Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:29 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I have never understood the need for certification to be a substitute. If it is a long term substitute for an illness or something then clearly that is needed, but just to be a fill in here and there it is not needed.

In Missouri you just need 60 hours of college credit.


None of our subs are certified teachers. If you are a certified teacher you are finding job in Illinois. You do need a bachelor's degree though.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:31 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I have never understood the need for certification to be a substitute. If it is a long term substitute for an illness or something then clearly that is needed, but just to be a fill in here and there it is not needed.

In Missouri you just need 60 hours of college credit.


Chicago should go back to requiring simply a bachelor's degree in order to substitute. In your larger schools some days its murder. In some instances you might need upwards of 20 substitutes.

It also prevents people who didn't major in education at the undergrad level from exploring the profession once they graduate from school. I know a number of people who entered the profession after first starting out as substitutes.

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Last edited by long time guy on Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:32 pm 
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Actually I am wrong. You can be a short term sub with 60 credit hours.

https://www.isbe.net/licensure-requirements

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:32 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
It's not safe to go to school.

All the more reason for you to Home School
Spaulding wrote:
You have contempt for the people you are educating/"helping".


And you have contempt for those unwilling to kill themselves for the purpose of babysitting your child for you. I'd prefer to call it even.


You are proving my point.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:33 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I have never understood the need for certification to be a substitute. If it is a long term substitute for an illness or something then clearly that is needed, but just to be a fill in here and there it is not needed.

In Missouri you just need 60 hours of college credit.


Chicago should go back to requiring simply a bachelor's degree in order to substitute. In your larger schools some days its murder. In some instances you might need upwards of 20 substitutes.

It also prevents people who didn't major in education at the undergrad level from exploring the profession once they graduate from school. I know a number of people who entered the profession after first starting out as substitutes.

I can only imagine how hard it is to find subs. That is crazy.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:33 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
It's not safe to go to school.

All the more reason for you to Home School
Spaulding wrote:
You have contempt for the people you are educating/"helping".


And you have contempt for those unwilling to kill themselves for the purpose of babysitting your child for you. I'd prefer to call it even.


You are proving my point.


Great!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:37 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I can only imagine how hard it is to find subs. That is crazy.


I don't think it's that hard out in the suburbs. I know some people that do it. Fuck, I bet I'm qualified. Seems like an okay gig.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:38 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I can only imagine how hard it is to find subs. That is crazy.


I don't think it's that hard out in the suburbs. I know some people that do it. Fuck, I bet I'm qualified. Seems like an okay gig.

I am talking about where they need a certified teacher.

Do you have a bachelors degree?

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:38 pm 
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YES!

I'm super qualified to teach!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:40 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I have never understood the need for certification to be a substitute. If it is a long term substitute for an illness or something then clearly that is needed, but just to be a fill in here and there it is not needed.

In Missouri you just need 60 hours of college credit.


Chicago should go back to requiring simply a bachelor's degree in order to substitute. In your larger schools some days its murder. In some instances you might need upwards of 20 substitutes.

It also prevents people who didn't major in education at the undergrad level from exploring the profession once they graduate from school. I know a number of people who entered the profession after first starting out as substitutes.

I can only imagine how hard it is to find subs. That is crazy.

None of them are ever young. I started as a substitute when I was 22 and fresh out of undergrad. Couldn't find a gig met a woman that was a teacher one day while playing basketball at the park. She walked me through it and told me to go and get the sub certificate and it changed my life. Told some of my guys about it and we all did the same thing. Some of us went on to grad school and got certified while others went on in other directions.

I often think about it now as with the current rules none of us would have been allowed to do it. They are losing out on a ton of young, prospective teachers as a result. The vast majority are either displaced or retired at this stage.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:42 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I have never understood the need for certification to be a substitute. If it is a long term substitute for an illness or something then clearly that is needed, but just to be a fill in here and there it is not needed.

In Missouri you just need 60 hours of college credit.


Chicago should go back to requiring simply a bachelor's degree in order to substitute. In your larger schools some days its murder. In some instances you might need upwards of 20 substitutes.

It also prevents people who didn't major in education at the undergrad level from exploring the profession once they graduate from school. I know a number of people who entered the profession after first starting out as substitutes.

I can only imagine how hard it is to find subs. That is crazy.

None of them are ever young. I started as substitute when was 22 and fresh out of undergrad. Couldn't find a gig met a woman that was a teacher one day while playing basketball at the park who happened to be a teacher. She walked me through it and told me to go get the sub certificate and it changed my life. Told some of my guys about it and we all did the same thing. Some of us went on to grad school and got certified while others went in other directions.

I often think about it now as with the current rules none of us would be allowed to do it. They are losing out on a ton of young prospective teachers as a result. The vast majority are either displaced or retired at this stage.


Yeah that is a good point. I wish more states would also adopt more alternate routes to certification. Missouri is one of only like 7 states to use the program that I went through to get certified.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:43 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
YES!

I'm super qualified to teach!!!!!


Then you should have no problem home schooling your children if it comes to that.

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