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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:34 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
There was contact but that wasn't a foul in that era, in that situation, especially as it did not affect the shot.


They called those sort of fouls then. Just not as often. The problem was that Pippen was late on the closeout That's what created the foul



https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Hollins-090529

Quote:
Technically a player is defined as being in the act of shooting from the time he goes up for the shot until after he has landed back on the ground. Except, as even Davis admits, "That's a call you normally don't get."

Today, with concern about defenders sliding under shooters and causing injuries, it gets called more often. That wasn't the case back then, and certainly not with a playoff outcome riding on it. Steve Kerr had been hit the same way several times that year, his first with the Bulls, and never was sent to the free-throw line.

"I went to the ref every time and they said, 'It doesn't matter, the shot was released," Kerr says. "Back then it was not called. And every time I asked the ref, I got the exact same explanation: Once you release the shot it doesn't matter."


Jordan got those sort of calls all the time back then Kareem got the same call against Laimbeer in the Finals against Detroit. Now there was a phantom foul if ever there was a foul.

Hubie Brown said that it was "definitely a foul" and a former coach and guy that has been around the game forever I'd like to think that he would know.

Just like traveling. It was rarely called but that still doesn't mean that when they call it that it isn't such.
Quote:
Pippen got back a split-second too late, Davis released the ball and then Pippen made contact with Davis' arms on the follow-through. The shot bounced off the right side of the rim, and for the briefest of moments it appeared the Bulls were going to win the game. But Hollins had blown his whistle, a late whistle, just as the shot was approaching the rim.

"When I heard the whistle, it was like 'What happened? Who fouled?'" Pippen recalls. "I didn't think I had made a foul."

Technically a player is defined as being in the act of shooting from the time he goes up for the shot until after he has landed back on the ground. Except, as even Davis admits, "That's a call you normally don't get."

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Last edited by long time guy on Mon May 11, 2020 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:18 pm 
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strong words by Reggie atthe end. "To this day" they believe they were the better team.

Not surprised at that. I believe I've heard him say that before. Looking forward to Episode 9 which will cover that series.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:19 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
whistler wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

I can't remember Pippen ever hitting a game winning shot at any point of his career.


I have been looking online today and can not find one.



yes he did. Pay attention, I have specifically reported on it in my Bulls vs Nets thread.

It was a game-winning layup against the Bullets in 1997 playoffs.


That was an offensive rebound on a Jordan game winning miss. Also after 1994.


no. thats somethin' different. Not off a Jordan miss.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:42 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
billypootons wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
There was contact but that wasn't a foul in that era, in that situation, especially as it did not affect the shot.


They called those sort of fouls then. Just not as often. The problem was that Pippen was late on the closeout That's what created the foul


https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Hollins-090529

Quote:
Technically a player is defined as being in the act of shooting from the time he goes up for the shot until after he has landed back on the ground. Except, as even Davis admits, "That's a call you normally don't get."

Today, with concern about defenders sliding under shooters and causing injuries, it gets called more often. That wasn't the case back then, and certainly not with a playoff outcome riding on it. Steve Kerr had been hit the same way several times that year, his first with the Bulls, and never was sent to the free-throw line.

"I went to the ref every time and they said, 'It doesn't matter, the shot was released," Kerr says. "Back then it was not called. And every time I asked the ref, I got the exact same explanation: Once you release the shot it doesn't matter."


Jordan got those sort of calls all the time back then Kareem got the same call against Laimbeer in the Finals against Detroit. Now there was a phantom foul if ever there was a foul.

Hubie Brown said that it was "definitely a foul" and a former coach and guy that has been around the game forever I'd like to think that he would know.

Just like traveling. It was rarely called but that still doesn't mean that when they call it that it isn't such.

The ref that was on the floor at the time said that it was not a foul, and that it was a blown call.

Case closed.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:43 pm 
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If anybody wants to see some Willie May highlight, just ask Nas and he will provide you with some clips of his days with the Mets.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:45 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
If anybody wants to see some Willie May highlight, just ask Nas and he will provide you with some clips of his days with the Mets.


Sad! Reading is fundamental!

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:55 pm 
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whistler wrote:
strong words by Reggie atthe end. "To this day" they believe they were the better team.

Not surprised at that. I believe I've heard him say that before. Looking forward to Episode 9 which will cover that series.

No bigger Bulls & Jordan fan than me, but that '98 Bulls team was so beat up by the time they met up against Indy that Miller was probably correct.

At full strength, no way, but, like I said before, after Games 1 and 2, I totally thought that we could very well - and deserved to - lose that series.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:00 pm 
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I was struck by how I knew the names and histories of all the players in this show, even the guys on the other teams, like a Bobby Phills but couldn't recognize half the guys on current NBA All Star teams.

Also, this series probably made Jordan a few hundred million more in sales

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:08 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I was struck by how I knew the names and histories of all the players in this show, even the guys on the other teams, like a Bobby Phills but couldn't recognize half the guys on current NBA All Star teams.

Also, this series probably made Jordan a few hundred million more in sales

Jordan had one last foe to slay: LeBron.

Now he can enjoy retirement.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:18 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I was struck by how I knew the names and histories of all the players in this show, even the guys on the other teams, like a Bobby Phills but couldn't recognize half the guys on current NBA All Star teams.

Also, this series probably made Jordan a few hundred million more in sales


I was stunned at how few of the details I remembered accurately. I guess it's all encased in the friendly glow of history. All except Sam Smith, the Knicks and Krause.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:22 pm 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
long time guy wrote:
billypootons wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
There was contact but that wasn't a foul in that era, in that situation, especially as it did not affect the shot.


They called those sort of fouls then. Just not as often. The problem was that Pippen was late on the closeout That's what created the foul


https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Hollins-090529

Quote:
Technically a player is defined as being in the act of shooting from the time he goes up for the shot until after he has landed back on the ground. Except, as even Davis admits, "That's a call you normally don't get."

Today, with concern about defenders sliding under shooters and causing injuries, it gets called more often. That wasn't the case back then, and certainly not with a playoff outcome riding on it. Steve Kerr had been hit the same way several times that year, his first with the Bulls, and never was sent to the free-throw line.

"I went to the ref every time and they said, 'It doesn't matter, the shot was released," Kerr says. "Back then it was not called. And every time I asked the ref, I got the exact same explanation: Once you release the shot it doesn't matter."


Jordan got those sort of calls all the time back then Kareem got the same call against Laimbeer in the Finals against Detroit. Now there was a phantom foul if ever there was a foul.

Hubie Brown said that it was "definitely a foul" and a former coach and guy that has been around the game forever I'd like to think that he would know.

Just like traveling. It was rarely called but that still doesn't mean that when they call it that it isn't such.

The ref that was on the floor at the time said that it was not a foul, and that it was a blown call.

Case closed.


He hit him on the arm. That is a foul. I don't care what a ref would or would not have called. You get hit on the arm a d that is a foul. Always has been.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:26 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
long time guy wrote:
billypootons wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
There was contact but that wasn't a foul in that era, in that situation, especially as it did not affect the shot.


They called those sort of fouls then. Just not as often. The problem was that Pippen was late on the closeout That's what created the foul


https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Hollins-090529

Quote:
Technically a player is defined as being in the act of shooting from the time he goes up for the shot until after he has landed back on the ground. Except, as even Davis admits, "That's a call you normally don't get."

Today, with concern about defenders sliding under shooters and causing injuries, it gets called more often. That wasn't the case back then, and certainly not with a playoff outcome riding on it. Steve Kerr had been hit the same way several times that year, his first with the Bulls, and never was sent to the free-throw line.

"I went to the ref every time and they said, 'It doesn't matter, the shot was released," Kerr says. "Back then it was not called. And every time I asked the ref, I got the exact same explanation: Once you release the shot it doesn't matter."


Jordan got those sort of calls all the time back then Kareem got the same call against Laimbeer in the Finals against Detroit. Now there was a phantom foul if ever there was a foul.

Hubie Brown said that it was "definitely a foul" and a former coach and guy that has been around the game forever I'd like to think that he would know.

Just like traveling. It was rarely called but that still doesn't mean that when they call it that it isn't such.

The ref that was on the floor at the time said that it was not a foul, and that it was a blown call.

Case closed.


He hit him on the arm. That is a foul. I don't care what a ref would or would not have called. You get hit on the arm a d that is a foul. Always has been.

Just take the damn L and live to fight another day.

Don't die on that hill.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:37 pm 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
long time guy wrote:
billypootons wrote:
long time guy wrote:

They called those sort of fouls then. Just not as often. The problem was that Pippen was late on the closeout That's what created the foul


https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Hollins-090529

Quote:
Technically a player is defined as being in the act of shooting from the time he goes up for the shot until after he has landed back on the ground. Except, as even Davis admits, "That's a call you normally don't get."

Today, with concern about defenders sliding under shooters and causing injuries, it gets called more often. That wasn't the case back then, and certainly not with a playoff outcome riding on it. Steve Kerr had been hit the same way several times that year, his first with the Bulls, and never was sent to the free-throw line.

"I went to the ref every time and they said, 'It doesn't matter, the shot was released," Kerr says. "Back then it was not called. And every time I asked the ref, I got the exact same explanation: Once you release the shot it doesn't matter."


Jordan got those sort of calls all the time back then Kareem got the same call against Laimbeer in the Finals against Detroit. Now there was a phantom foul if ever there was a foul.

Hubie Brown said that it was "definitely a foul" and a former coach and guy that has been around the game forever I'd like to think that he would know.

Just like traveling. It was rarely called but that still doesn't mean that when they call it that it isn't such.

The ref that was on the floor at the time said that it was not a foul, and that it was a blown call.

Case closed.


He hit him on the arm. That is a foul. I don't care what a ref would or would not have called. You get hit on the arm a d that is a foul. Always has been.

Just take the damn L and live to fight another day.

Don't die on that hill.


It's not about dying on a hill. The only way that it isn't a foul is if he doesn't get hit. Nothing to really talk about actually.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:39 pm 
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Sam Smith talks in a manner where it looks like he is trying to speak while simultaneously smelling a nasty deuce someone has dropped on his foot.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:44 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Sam Smith talks in a manner where it looks like he is trying to speak while simultaneously smelling a nasty deuce someone has dropped on his foot.

:lol:

His mouth does a lot of twisting and turning, it is quite peculiar.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Sam Smith talks in a manner where it looks like he is trying to speak while simultaneously smelling a nasty deuce someone has dropped on his foot.

:lol:

His mouth does a lot of twisting and turning, it is quite peculiar.


Yes. It's like he's grimacing while he's talking.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:08 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I was struck by how I knew the names and histories of all the players in this show, even the guys on the other teams, like a Bobby Phills but couldn't recognize half the guys on current NBA All Star teams.

Also, this series probably made Jordan a few hundred million more in sales

Bobby Phills, now there's a guy who's career really crashed and burned.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:58 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Sam Smith talks in a manner where it looks like he is trying to speak while simultaneously smelling a nasty deuce someone has dropped on his foot.


will KC johnson now be able to finally speak or has he already replaced john paxson cock with the new guys?


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:13 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Just take the damn L and live to fight another day.

Don't die on that hill.


It's not about dying on a hill. The only way that it isn't a foul is if he doesn't get hit. Nothing to really talk about actually.

No matter what the written rules say, fouls are discretionary, and the referee's discretion trumps the written rules.

Every time. That is The Law of The Land.

The referee who was one of the two on the floor, and who could have contributed to or overruled the call admitted that it was the wrong discretionary call.

Therefore, for all intents and purposes, he admitted that there was no actionable foul present. If you could rewind the game and they could make the call again, it would have gone the other way - admittedly.

Garretson even offers that Hue Hollins knew that he fucked-up:

"It had been a super game to that point. Hue felt badly about it. Sometimes we make mistakes, but we do a pretty good job overall."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:22 pm 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Just take the damn L and live to fight another day.

Don't die on that hill.


It's not about dying on a hill. The only way that it isn't a foul is if he doesn't get hit. Nothing to really talk about actually.

No matter what the written rules say, fouls are discretionary, and the referee's discretion trumps the written rules.

Every time. That is The Law of The Land.

The referee who was one of the two on the floor, and who could have contributed to or overruled the call admitted that it was the wrong discretionary call.

Therefore, for all intents and purposes, he admitted that there was no actionable foul present. If you could rewind the game and they could make the call again, it would have gone the other way - admittedly.

Garretson even offers that Hue Hollins knew that he fucked-up:

"It had been a super game to that point. Hue felt badly about it. Sometimes we make mistakes, but we do a pretty good job overall."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html



Ok so Hue Hollins called the foul based on the rule book which means it was a foul. Just because Garrettson claims it wasn't in his opinion means nothing. The only way it "wasn't a foul" was if he didn't get hit. He did get hit and based on the rules it was a foul. If Hollins wanted to call it a foul then he was within his rights. The spinning on it is immaterial as he called the call based on the rules.

If anything it was bad defense on Pippen's part He was late on the rotation.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:38 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Just take the damn L and live to fight another day.

Don't die on that hill.


It's not about dying on a hill. The only way that it isn't a foul is if he doesn't get hit. Nothing to really talk about actually.

No matter what the written rules say, fouls are discretionary, and the referee's discretion trumps the written rules.

Every time. That is The Law of The Land.

The referee who was one of the two on the floor, and who could have contributed to or overruled the call admitted that it was the wrong discretionary call.

Therefore, for all intents and purposes, he admitted that there was no actionable foul present. If you could rewind the game and they could make the call again, it would have gone the other way - admittedly.

Garretson even offers that Hue Hollins knew that he fucked-up:

"It had been a super game to that point. Hue felt badly about it. Sometimes we make mistakes, but we do a pretty good job overall."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html



Ok so Hue Hollins called the foul based on the rule book which means it was a foul. Just because Garrettson claims it wasn't in his opinion means nothing. The only way it "wasn't a foul" was if he didn't get hit. He did get hit and based on the rules it was a foul. If Hollins wanted to call it a foul then he was within his rights. The spinning on it is immaterial as he called the call based on the rules.

If anything it was bad defense on Pippen's part He was late on the rotation.

He basically dunked from the free throw line just to get there. It was an amazing defensive play.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:12 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:15 pm 
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That's great!


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:44 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I was struck by how I knew the names and histories of all the players in this show, even the guys on the other teams, like a Bobby Phills but couldn't recognize half the guys on current NBA All Star teams.

Also, this series probably made Jordan a few hundred million more in sales


I'm confident that if you showed me rosters from 1988 until 1998 I could name far more players by photo than I could name today.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:11 pm 
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Oakley blames Ewing for Knicks fall - great read - ya i know it's a week old

https://nypost.com/2020/05/03/the-last- ... -on-ewing/


Xavier McDaniel responds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bmKtTcoZNY


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:17 pm 
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I love Michael Jordan.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:21 pm 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
whistler wrote:
strong words by Reggie atthe end. "To this day" they believe they were the better team.

Not surprised at that. I believe I've heard him say that before. Looking forward to Episode 9 which will cover that series.

No bigger Bulls & Jordan fan than me, but that '98 Bulls team was so beat up by the time they met up against Indy that Miller was probably correct.

At full strength, no way, but, like I said before, after Games 1 and 2, I totally thought that we could very well - and deserved to - lose that series.


Nah. There is something called GUTS that sometimes finds itself with beat up very tired people. Others call it adrenalin but it is the same thing. The Bulls had that in some veteran and immensely tough players. Miller was great in that series and I can see his point but teams that on paper are better than their opponent very often lose. And the fact that basketball games are decided mostly be a few players in any given game, the Bulls had some players that could absolutely "rise to the occasion" better than pretty much every other team ever.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:29 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
whistler wrote:
strong words by Reggie atthe end. "To this day" they believe they were the better team.

Not surprised at that. I believe I've heard him say that before. Looking forward to Episode 9 which will cover that series.

No bigger Bulls & Jordan fan than me, but that '98 Bulls team was so beat up by the time they met up against Indy that Miller was probably correct.

At full strength, no way, but, like I said before, after Games 1 and 2, I totally thought that we could very well - and deserved to - lose that series.


Nah. There is something called GUTS that sometimes finds itself with beat up very tired people. Others call it adrenalin but it is the same thing. The Bulls had that in some veteran and immensely tough players. Miller was great in that series and I can see his point but teams that on paper are better than their opponent very often lose. And the fact that basketball games are decided mostly be a few players in any given game, the Bulls had some players that could absolutely "rise to the occasion" better than pretty much every other team ever.


yup. to compare to contemporary times you can look at the warriors and rockets. rockets talk a lot of shit and strut their fake bravado about wanting to play the warriors in the playoffs but when it's crunch time in the playoffs vs the warriors, all those houston tough guys pass wide open shots in crunch time because they are chokers.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:57 pm 
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Jordan Retires Mini-Me!

Damn. Mike fucked this dude's life up.

From his Wikipedia page wrote:

I always felt the worst thing to happen to Harold was the "Baby Jordan" tag.
– George Raveling, Miner's head coach at USC

In 2011, Miner appeared at the Pacific-10 Men's Basketball Tournament, to be inducted into that conference's basketball Hall of Honor, and indicated he planned to attend the retirement of his jersey by USC later that year. He would later attend the retirement of his jersey by USC during half time of the game against UCLA on January 15, 2012.[5][6] Miner tied his previous seclusion largely to his disappointment with his professional career. Explaining his public reemergence, he said, I guess I feel like I'm over it now. I've kind of purged my system and come to a point of accepting what happened with my career: that I wasn't able to live up to my own personal expectations.

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We Now Know That JOE BIDEN has been COMPROMISED by CHINA! (let that sink in)

Election 2020-The Largest Fraud in the History of Mankind.

*If you believe that Biden won, you also believe that Epstein killed himself*


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