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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:12 am 
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long time guy wrote:
I'm not speaking to the gloriousness of Russia but if you want to play the moralism game regarding the Cold War then let's do it. Once I go down that road regarding all of the atrocities committed by the U.S. then you and the others will pivot to the Anti American crap again.
The United States has done a lot of bad too.

long time guy wrote:
You can't have it both ways Brick(as you are currently doing with Palestine) either you are for morality or you aren't.
If I have to decide, I will be for morality.

long time guy wrote:
Either Palestine is a state or it's not.
Well, it's literally not a state. So, it's not.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:13 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Either Palestine is a state or it's not.


It's not. And never was.


Okay then how did they know to place Israel in that specific spot? There never was a Palestinian state or people according to you and Brick

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Last edited by long time guy on Wed May 27, 2020 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:14 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If there was no Palestine then how do you explain this?
What is the Balfour Declaration?
The Balfour Declaration ("Balfour's promise" in Arabic) was a public pledge by Britain in 1917 declaring its aim to establisha national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
It's a place that exists. Schaumburg exists but there isn't a Schaumburgian people.


Nah Brick. According to you it didn't exist remember? Now it's a place that exists? WYC

I think you need to reread what didn't exist. The term existed as a geographical area.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:14 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If there was no Palestine then how do you explain this?
What is the Balfour Declaration?
The Balfour Declaration ("Balfour's promise" in Arabic) was a public pledge by Britain in 1917 declaring its aim to establisha national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
It's a place that exists. Schaumburg exists but there isn't a Schaumburgian people.



I'm gonna need IMU to weigh in.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:14 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I'm not speaking to the gloriousness of Russia but if you want to play the moralism game regarding the Cold War then let's do it. Once I go down that road regarding all of the atrocities committed by the U.S. then you and the others will pivot to the Anti American crap again.
The United States has done a lot of bad too.

long time guy wrote:
You can't have it both ways Brick(as you are currently doing with Palestine) either you are for morality or you aren't.
If I have to decide, I will be for morality.

long time guy wrote:
Either Palestine is a state or it's not.
Well, it's literally not a state. So, it's not.


Ok so how did know to place Israel in that particular spot then?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:16 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If there was no Palestine then how do you explain this?
What is the Balfour Declaration?
The Balfour Declaration ("Balfour's promise" in Arabic) was a public pledge by Britain in 1917 declaring its aim to establisha national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
It's a place that exists. Schaumburg exists but there isn't a Schaumburgian people.


Nah Brick. According to you it didn't exist remember? Now it's a place that exists? WYC

I think you need to reread what didn't exist. The term existed as a geographical area.


No neither the people or state has ever existed according to you. With that being the case how could they know to place Israel in that particular location?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:19 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Ok so how did know to place Israel in that particular spot then?
Next year, I plan to travel to the Appalachians because I just want to go to Appalachians. Do you know where I am going? How do you know where I am going?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:19 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If there was no Palestine then how do you explain this?
What is the Balfour Declaration?
The Balfour Declaration ("Balfour's promise" in Arabic) was a public pledge by Britain in 1917 declaring its aim to establisha national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
It's a place that exists. Schaumburg exists but there isn't a Schaumburgian people.

I hate how they're always fighting the Palatinians and occupying the Arlington Heights.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:19 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If there was no Palestine then how do you explain this?
What is the Balfour Declaration?
The Balfour Declaration ("Balfour's promise" in Arabic) was a public pledge by Britain in 1917 declaring its aim to establisha national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
It's a place that exists. Schaumburg exists but there isn't a Schaumburgian people.

I hate how they're always fighting the Palatinians and occupying the Arlington Heights.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:20 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If there was no Palestine then how do you explain this?
What is the Balfour Declaration?
The Balfour Declaration ("Balfour's promise" in Arabic) was a public pledge by Britain in 1917 declaring its aim to establisha national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
It's a place that exists. Schaumburg exists but there isn't a Schaumburgian people.



I'm gonna need IMU to weigh in.


The crest on its flag is a Cooper's Hawk.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:20 am 
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CH's post is much funnier if read in the voice of Mike Tyson. That's probably true for all his posts though.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:25 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
As far as Israel goes there isn't much of a comparison. There was no "Israeli state" prior to 1948. The land was over 90% Palestinian prior to the Balfour Declaration.


There was no such thing as "Palestinian" identity before the 60s.
That's the pretty funny thing here and it's why I brought this discussion over. ltg was all aboard the Russia train when they were FAR worse to the Baltic States they took over by force than Israel has ever been to the Palestinians and pretty much all of those groups of people had actually been documented countries for hundreds or thousands of years in one way or another. ltg's excuse, I believe, was "security". Well, so extend the same excuse to Israel.


My biggest issue with it is that occupations, invasions, partitions, etc. happen all the time and have throughout history, but it's only Israel that incites a special kind of ire. I think any reasonable person might wonder why that is.


Now you are attempting to moralize immorality. I have a problem with the way Indians were treated in this country also. I have a problem with how the Aborigines people of Australia are treated also. I also have a problem with how Muslims are treated.

I could just as easily argue that you and Ogie have a special hatred for Arabs and Muslims but I try not to.

You claim that it is Anti Semitic simply because a person has a problem with an act that they consider to be immoral. There is probably more of a problem with you than there is with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:27 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
As far as Israel goes there isn't much of a comparison. There was no "Israeli state" prior to 1948. The land was over 90% Palestinian prior to the Balfour Declaration.


There was no such thing as "Palestinian" identity before the 60s.
That's the pretty funny thing here and it's why I brought this discussion over. ltg was all aboard the Russia train when they were FAR worse to the Baltic States they took over by force than Israel has ever been to the Palestinians and pretty much all of those groups of people had actually been documented countries for hundreds or thousands of years in one way or another. ltg's excuse, I believe, was "security". Well, so extend the same excuse to Israel.


My biggest issue with it is that occupations, invasions, partitions, etc. happen all the time and have throughout history, but it's only Israel that incites a special kind of ire. I think any reasonable person might wonder why that is.

Because it's unique. It's like giving the Mormons New Zealand.


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:29 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
As far as Israel goes there isn't much of a comparison. There was no "Israeli state" prior to 1948. The land was over 90% Palestinian prior to the Balfour Declaration.


There was no such thing as "Palestinian" identity before the 60s.
That's the pretty funny thing here and it's why I brought this discussion over. ltg was all aboard the Russia train when they were FAR worse to the Baltic States they took over by force than Israel has ever been to the Palestinians and pretty much all of those groups of people had actually been documented countries for hundreds or thousands of years in one way or another. ltg's excuse, I believe, was "security". Well, so extend the same excuse to Israel.


My biggest issue with it is that occupations, invasions, partitions, etc. happen all the time and have throughout history, but it's only Israel that incites a special kind of ire. I think any reasonable person might wonder why that is.

Because it's unique. It's like giving the Mormons New Zealand.


More like giving the Wampanoags Boston.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:31 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ok so how did know to place Israel in that particular spot then?
Next year, I plan to travel to the Appalachians because I just want to go to Appalachians. Do you know where I am going? How do you know where I am going?


Nah dude. You have repeatedly stated that the name didn't exist before Israel was created.

If that's the case there was no way for anyone to know what they happened to be referencing.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:34 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Nah dude. You have repeatedly stated that the name didn't exist before Israel was created.
This is a lie.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:39 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I'm not speaking to the gloriousness of Russia but if you want to play the moralism game regarding the Cold War then let's do it. Once I go down that road regarding all of the atrocities committed by the U.S. then you and the others will pivot to the Anti American crap again.
The United States has done a lot of bad too.

The ol whitewash routine of U.S. Actions trick won't work either Brick. Nice try though. You and a few others are quite comfortable with U..S. aggression whenever and wherever it occurs. That is quite evident. You rarely address and whenever you do its expressed with a rather meek "U.S. has done bad too". response.

If you truly believed that then we wouldn't have to have this discussion all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:41 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I'm not speaking to the gloriousness of Russia but if you want to play the moralism game regarding the Cold War then let's do it. Once I go down that road regarding all of the atrocities committed by the U.S. then you and the others will pivot to the Anti American crap again.
The United States has done a lot of bad too.

The ol whitewash routine of U.S. Actions trick won't work either Brick. Nice try though. You and a few others are quite comfortable with U..S. aggression whenever and wherever it occurs. That is quite evident. You rarely address and whenever you do its expressed in the rather meek "U.S. has done bad too".

If you truly believed that then we wouldn't have to have this discussion all the time.
You used the incredibly generic "atrocities committed by the U.S." that I responded in generic terms too.

If you really want, I can give you my "resume" on saying the United States has done bad things but I don't think you really care that much and it's just a way to try and walk away from this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:44 am 
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Stalin killed 50 million of his own people in purges leading up to World War 2. But the US did stuff too. So let the USSR rule all of Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:50 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
As far as Israel goes there isn't much of a comparison. There was no "Israeli state" prior to 1948. The land was over 90% Palestinian prior to the Balfour Declaration.


There was no such thing as "Palestinian" identity before the 60s.
That's the pretty funny thing here and it's why I brought this discussion over. ltg was all aboard the Russia train when they were FAR worse to the Baltic States they took over by force than Israel has ever been to the Palestinians and pretty much all of those groups of people had actually been documented countries for hundreds or thousands of years in one way or another. ltg's excuse, I believe, was "security". Well, so extend the same excuse to Israel.


My biggest issue with it is that occupations, invasions, partitions, etc. happen all the time and have throughout history, but it's only Israel that incites a special kind of ire. I think any reasonable person might wonder why that is.

Because it's unique. It's like giving the Mormons New Zealand.


More like giving the Wampanoags Boston.

Not really. European jews were no longer genetically Middle Eastern.


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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:52 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Stalin killed 50 million of his own people in purges leading up to World War 2. But the US did stuff too. So let the USSR rule all of Europe.


Hey look the habitual liar WFR has quoted something else that literally no one else has ever said. How long will he go oh how long will he go?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:53 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I'm not speaking to the gloriousness of Russia but if you want to play the moralism game regarding the Cold War then let's do it. Once I go down that road regarding all of the atrocities committed by the U.S. then you and the others will pivot to the Anti American crap again.
The United States has done a lot of bad too.

The ol whitewash routine of U.S. Actions trick won't work either Brick. Nice try though. You and a few others are quite comfortable with U..S. aggression whenever and wherever it occurs. That is quite evident. You rarely address and whenever you do its expressed in the rather meek "U.S. has done bad too".

If you truly believed that then we wouldn't have to have this discussion all the time.
You used the incredibly generic "atrocities committed by the U.S." that I responded in generic terms too.

If you really want, I can give you my "resume" on saying the United States has done bad things but I don't think you really care that much and it's just a way to try and walk away from this thread.


Feel free to cite it. I am an evidence kind of guy.

As far as Walking from a thread goes you did that the second you contradicted yourself on Palestine and started referencing Schaumburg and the Appalachian Mountains.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:05 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Feel free to cite it. I am an evidence kind of guy.
Ok, I've talked a lot about how slavery still has an impact today, and how segregation still has lasting effects. The War in Iraq was wrong and people should have been punished for the false information that led to it.

long time guy wrote:
As far as Walking from a thread goes you did that the second you contradicted yourself on Palestine and started referencing Schaumburg and the Appalachian Mountains.
I'll make a deal with you. I have multiple posts lined up that say that Palestine, as an area, existed prior to the creation of Israel. I will post them to prove you wrong but you must promise to say the words "I was wrong about that" in response. Is that a deal?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:18 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Feel free to cite it. I am an evidence kind of guy.
Ok, I've talked a lot about how slavery still has an impact today, and how segregation still has lasting effects. The War in Iraq was wrong and people should have been punished for the false information that led to it.

long time guy wrote:
As far as Walking from a thread goes you did that the second you contradicted yourself on Palestine and started referencing Schaumburg and the Appalachian Mountains.
I'll make a deal with you. I have multiple posts lined up that say that Palestine, as an area, existed prior to the creation of Israel. I will post them to prove you wrong but you must promise to say the words "I was wrong about that" in response. Is that a deal?


What if I find posts where you say it never existed? Then what?

And U.S. atrocities since WWII entail much more than just Iraq. Much more. I seem to remember you being upset whenever I pointed that out by the way.

I know who and what the Soviets were. Just like I know who and what the United States happens to be. When you start speaking in terms of morality then you better not live in a glass house.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:21 am 
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long time guy wrote:
What if I find posts where you say it never existed? Then what?
I like this better. Please do this.

long time guy wrote:
And U.S. atrocities since WWII entail much more than just Iraq. Much more. I seem to remember you being upset whenever I pointed that out by the way.
It wasn't a list of everything. For instance, I am against the Japanese internment camps but I also don't remember it ever coming up on here.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:28 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
What if I find posts where you say it never existed? Then what?
I like this better. Please do this.

long time guy wrote:
And U.S. atrocities since WWII entail much more than just Iraq. Much more. I seem to remember you being upset whenever I pointed that out by the way.
It wasn't a list of everything. For instance, I am against the Japanese internment camps but I also don't remember it ever coming up on here.


It's not just that however. You have had a problem whenever I have mentioned U S. Atrocities. You play the Anti American card and you have hinted at Anti Semitism merely because I have a problem with an Israeli State being placed on land that was inhabited by someone elae.

You also have a terrible habit of finding false equivalencies (as you are doing now) whenever there is a discussion involving politics or history for some reason.

You have this habit of trying to tie everything to Israel all the time. You might want to mention this to Jorr.

What we discussed with Germany and The Soviets had nothing to do with Israel yet here we go again. The two cases aren't similar in the least but you had to get that conversation going because it's the only one you're comfortable with seemingly discussing.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
What if I find posts where you say it never existed? Then what?
I like this better. Please do this.

long time guy wrote:
And U.S. atrocities since WWII entail much more than just Iraq. Much more. I seem to remember you being upset whenever I pointed that out by the way.
It wasn't a list of everything. For instance, I am against the Japanese internment camps but I also don't remember it ever coming up on here.


It's not just that however. You have had a problem whenever I have mentioned U S. Atrocities. You play the Anti American card and you have hinted at Anti Semitism merely because I have a problem with an Israeli State being placed on Palestinian land.

You also have a terrible habit of finding false equivalencies (as you are doing now) whenever there is a discussion involving politics or history for some reason.

You have this habit of trying to tie everything to Israel for some reason. You might want to mention this to Jorr.

What we discussed with Germany and The Soviets had nothing to do with Israel yet here we go again. The two cases aren't similar in the least but you had to get that conversation going because it's the only one you're comfortable with discussing for some strange reason.

Did you find the posts yet about me saying Palestine has never existed as a term?

You are just throwing out random things you think I may have said. We know you can use the quote function.

I believe I said it was anti-Semetic to think Israel doesn't have a right to exist where it does now, and I stopped saying it when you admitted that Israel has a right to exist where it does now.

I mentioned it here because I found it to be inconsistent with your views on Russia.

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:32 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
What if I find posts where you say it never existed? Then what?
I like this better. Please do this.

long time guy wrote:
And U.S. atrocities since WWII entail much more than just Iraq. Much more. I seem to remember you being upset whenever I pointed that out by the way.
It wasn't a list of everything. For instance, I am against the Japanese internment camps but I also don't remember it ever coming up on here.


It's not just that however. You have had a problem whenever I have mentioned U S. Atrocities. You play the Anti American card and you have hinted at Anti Semitism merely because I have a problem with an Israeli State being placed on Palestinian land.

You also have a terrible habit of finding false equivalencies (as you are doing now) whenever there is a discussion involving politics or history for some reason.

You have this habit of trying to tie everything to Israel for some reason. You might want to mention this to Jorr.

What we discussed with Germany and The Soviets had nothing to do with Israel yet here we go again. The two cases aren't similar in the least but you had to get that conversation going because it's the only one you're comfortable with discussing for some strange reason.

Did you find the posts yet about me saying Palestine has never existed as a term?

You are just throwing out random things you think I may have said. We know you can use the quote function.

I believe I said it was anti-Semetic to think Israel doesn't have a right to exist where it does now, and I stopped saying it when you admitted that Israel has a right to exist where it does now.

I mentioned it here because I found it to be inconsistent with your views on Russia.


Explain how they are similar then?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:33 am 
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Explain how the two are similar?

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 Post subject: Re: Israel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:45 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Explain how the two are similar?

"To the victors go the spoils" in terms of a country that wins deciding the fate of the land it has been victorious on.

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