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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:40 pm 
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The protests have centered largely around the fact that these people are dissatisfied with the presence of police in their lives. The cops standing aside and letting the chips fall as they may is arguably them listening and abiding the protesters demands.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:41 pm 
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Why on earth would a police officer stick his neck out for these communities after hate and vitrol of the last five days? Seriously, some of the shit I've heard has been insane. Ogie's rhetoric is not unique.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:42 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
The protests have centered largely around the fact that these people are dissatisfied with the presence of police in their lives. The cops standing aside and letting the chips fall as they may is arguably them listening and abiding the protesters demands.


Thus my point about mutual distrust. But if I am picking sides, the cops started this. I am beginning to believe the drama in the Wire is fully rooted in real life big city policing.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:43 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
Why on earth would a police officer stick his neck out for these communities after hate and vitrol of the last five days? Seriously, some of the shit I've heard has been insane. Ogie's rhetoric is not unique.


Why does a pro athlete go out and perform after being booed mercilessly by his home crowd? Pride. To prove people wrong. It’s the job. Etc.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:44 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Why on earth would a police officer stick his neck out for these communities after hate and vitrol of the last five days? Seriously, some of the shit I've heard has been insane. Ogie's rhetoric is not unique.


Why does a pro athlete go out and perform after being booed mercilessly by his home crowd? Pride. To prove people wrong. It’s the job. Etc.

A pro athlete is fucking FU money while a cop, even in Chicago, generally tops out at upper-middle class income.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:48 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Why on earth would a police officer stick his neck out for these communities after hate and vitrol of the last five days? Seriously, some of the shit I've heard has been insane. Ogie's rhetoric is not unique.


Why does a pro athlete go out and perform after being booed mercilessly by his home crowd? Pride. To prove people wrong. It’s the job. Etc.

A pro athlete is fucking FU money while a cop, even in Chicago, generally tops out at upper-middle class income.


A small portion are making FU money.

The same logic applies to other industries. A salesperson getting shot down repeatedly. A waitress getting yelled at by patrons. A teacher with indifferent children and parents. You choose the career knowing the risks, benefits, and stresses of the job.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:49 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The protests have centered largely around the fact that these people are dissatisfied with the presence of police in their lives. The cops standing aside and letting the chips fall as they may is arguably them listening and abiding the protesters demands.


Thus my point about mutual distrust. But if I am picking sides, the cops started this.


I can see people feeling that way. But at the end of Sir's show today, he brought up the analog to the "you can't understand if you're not black" statement, which is of course, "you can't understand if you're not a cop." (He was actually making a different point about mental health, but I'll credit it to him.)

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The protests have centered largely around the fact that these people are dissatisfied with the presence of police in their lives. The cops standing aside and letting the chips fall as they may is arguably them listening and abiding the protesters demands.


Thus my point about mutual distrust. But if I am picking sides, the cops started this.


I can see people feeling that way. But at the end of Sir's show today, he brought up the analog to the "you can't understand if you're not black" statement, which is of course, "you can't understand if you're not a cop."


I thought I had a good understanding of the racial stuff in this country, and then I read that recent book on black migration in the 20th century. You want to understand Jim Crowe? Segregation in Chicago? My goodness did I learn a lot.

The cops have an incredibly tough job. My next door neighbor is one for a tough suburb. His stories scare me. But we can’t allow cops to extract their own justice. Ever.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:56 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The protests have centered largely around the fact that these people are dissatisfied with the presence of police in their lives. The cops standing aside and letting the chips fall as they may is arguably them listening and abiding the protesters demands.


Thus my point about mutual distrust. But if I am picking sides, the cops started this.


I can see people feeling that way. But at the end of Sir's show today, he brought up the analog to the "you can't understand if you're not black" statement, which is of course, "you can't understand if you're not a cop."


I thought I had a good understanding of the racial stuff in this country, and then I read that recent book on black migration in the 20th century. You want to understand Jim Crowe? Segregation in Chicago? My goodness did I learn a lot.

The cops have an incredibly tough job. My next door neighbor is one for a tough suburb. His stories scare me. But we can’t allow cops to extract their own justice. Ever.


Nope,we can not allow them to become Judge Dredds.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:05 pm 
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https://www.zerohedge.com/political/tru ... -us-troops

As more and more US cities announce curfews in an attempt to regain control of their citizenry, and following his reported rage-filled call with "weak" governors, NBC News reports that President Donald Trump is considering invoking a 213-year-old federal law that would allow him to deploy active-duty U.S. troops in an effort to control the riots spreading across the nation faster than COVID.

“You have to dominate,” Trump said Monday in a video conference with governors and law enforcement.

“If you don’t dominate, you’re wasting your time. They’re going to run over you, you’re going to look like a bunch of jerks.”

According to four persons familiar with the internal White House discussions, NBC News says Trump has warmed to the idea of using the Insurrection Act, adopted in 1807, which was last invoked during the 1992 Rodney King riots in Los Angeles.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:13 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
The protests have centered largely around the fact that these people are dissatisfied with the presence of police in their lives. The cops standing aside and letting the chips fall as they may is arguably them listening and abiding the protesters demands.


I actually have grown to like you a little since I realized that your life perspective is skewed more than most. Right here your first line accurately illustrates that imho. I don't think that you understand the full dissatisfaction, nor how spoiled bratty and tone deaf the police response is. But at least your characterization of the cops is correct, so there's that.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Why on earth would a police officer stick his neck out for these communities after hate and vitrol of the last five days? Seriously, some of the shit I've heard has been insane. Ogie's rhetoric is not unique.


Why does a pro athlete go out and perform after being booed mercilessly by his home crowd? Pride. To prove people wrong. It’s the job. Etc.

A pro athlete is fucking FU money while a cop, even in Chicago, generally tops out at upper-middle class income.


Pro athletes aren't getting shot, hit by bricks, or in fights with the general public. Expecting the average cop to be soldier when shit hits the fan, but don't you dare go overboard is a bridge too far.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:29 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Why on earth would a police officer stick his neck out for these communities after hate and vitrol of the last five days? Seriously, some of the shit I've heard has been insane. Ogie's rhetoric is not unique.


Why does a pro athlete go out and perform after being booed mercilessly by his home crowd? Pride. To prove people wrong. It’s the job. Etc.

A pro athlete is fucking FU money while a cop, even in Chicago, generally tops out at upper-middle class income.


A small portion are making FU money.

The same logic applies to other industries. A salesperson getting shot down repeatedly. A waitress getting yelled at by patrons. A teacher with indifferent children and parents. You choose the career knowing the risks, benefits, and stresses of the job.

Yes and no. Sometimes people in power change the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:32 pm 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-reportedly-mulls-domestic-deployment-us-troops

As more and more US cities announce curfews in an attempt to regain control of their citizenry, and following his reported rage-filled call with "weak" governors, NBC News reports that President Donald Trump is considering invoking a 213-year-old federal law that would allow him to deploy active-duty U.S. troops in an effort to control the riots spreading across the nation faster than COVID.

“You have to dominate,” Trump said Monday in a video conference with governors and law enforcement.

“If you don’t dominate, you’re wasting your time. They’re going to run over you, you’re going to look like a bunch of jerks.”

According to four persons familiar with the internal White House discussions, NBC News says Trump has warmed to the idea of using the Insurrection Act, adopted in 1807, which was last invoked during the 1992 Rodney King riots in Los Angeles.


If he does that is is going to be full on civil war with a capital C.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:40 pm 
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No it's not.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:48 pm 
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Trump: "We will end (the riots) now."


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:49 pm 
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Trump: Use the National Guard to stop riots or I use the military.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:49 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-reportedly-mulls-domestic-deployment-us-troops

As more and more US cities announce curfews in an attempt to regain control of their citizenry, and following his reported rage-filled call with "weak" governors, NBC News reports that President Donald Trump is considering invoking a 213-year-old federal law that would allow him to deploy active-duty U.S. troops in an effort to control the riots spreading across the nation faster than COVID.

“You have to dominate,” Trump said Monday in a video conference with governors and law enforcement.

“If you don’t dominate, you’re wasting your time. They’re going to run over you, you’re going to look like a bunch of jerks.”

According to four persons familiar with the internal White House discussions, NBC News says Trump has warmed to the idea of using the Insurrection Act, adopted in 1807, which was last invoked during the 1992 Rodney King riots in Los Angeles.


If he does that is is going to be full on civil war with a capital C.


Trump doesn't the have the authority to ask active duty troops to do any on American soil.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.msnbc. ... 4177477518

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:56 pm 
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Nas yes he can, The Insurection act

Quote:
It further allows for the President to do the same in a state without the explicit consent of a state's government if it becomes impracticable to enforce federal laws through ordinary proceedings or if states are unable to safeguard its inhabitants' civil rights.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:07 pm 
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tommy wrote:
Trump: "We will end (the riots) now."

This is another one of those statements that will end up biting him in the ass. Just like when he said Covid was under control, 15 cases would be down to zero, it would magically go away, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:08 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
tommy wrote:
Trump: "We will end (the riots) now."

This is another one of those statements that will end up biting him in the ass. Just like when he said Covid was under control, 15 cases would be down to zero, it would magically go away, etc.


Lot easier to shoot people than fix a virus

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:10 pm 
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Put the hammer down. KAGA!


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:12 pm 
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mic drop?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:21 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
tommy wrote:
Trump: "We will end (the riots) now."

This is another one of those statements that will end up biting him in the ass. Just like when he said Covid was under control, 15 cases would be down to zero, it would magically go away, etc.


Lot easier to shoot people than fix a virus

Nobody expected him to “fix” it. Just don’t say stupid things. Then again, nobody expected that either.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:22 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The protests have centered largely around the fact that these people are dissatisfied with the presence of police in their lives. The cops standing aside and letting the chips fall as they may is arguably them listening and abiding the protesters demands.


I actually have grown to like you a little since I realized that your life perspective is skewed more than most. Right here your first line accurately illustrates that imho. I don't think that you understand the full dissatisfaction, nor how spoiled bratty and tone deaf the police response is. But at least your characterization of the cops is correct, so there's that.

I think they're done RR. I think the political leadership has failed in training them. Their focus has been to limit the number of bad incidents that make for high-profile news, not actually improve policing. Police know this as well as anyone, you think they give a shit about the "sensitivity training" they get or whatever? They know its bullshit.

They have to sit through all this crap every day, very few people even show the slightest appreciation for the immense sacrifice they make. Most of them have no friends outside the force because there is an impression (which does has an element of truth to it) that nobody will be friends with them or be able to relate to them. And then a bunch of college students and young people, most of whom have never held a real job in their lives, spout all this hateful nonsense about them.

And then what, something goes wrong in those people's lives and who do they call?

It's a shame its come to this, but it has nonetheless.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:24 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
At this point I think the cameras would actually protect the officer in many cases.


Would that help as they are being beat to all hell though? They can't shoot anybody obviously, they can't really restrain anybody either. At the very least they will be wildly outnumbered if not out right attacked. Look at the cop that was surrounded by the people in that one photo to keep him safe or those people in the video that helped stop the one cop from being dragged around the city.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:32 pm 
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The friends of mine from growing up who are in the CPD say they love the cameras.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:42 pm 
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It's a shame its going to take active military in the streets to crack down on criminals.

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