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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:35 am 
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https://talkpoverty.org/basics/

If they really want to correct the dysfunction then addressing this would be a good place to start.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:42 am 
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https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... -fight-it/
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Here is a rarely publicized fact about our booming economy: Despite stock market highs and low unemployment, poverty in the U.S. is pervasive. The number of people earning less than $25,750 for a family of four is rising in both Republican and Democratic districts, and across racial and geographic lines. According to an analysis of Census Bureau data by Stateline, a division of the Pew Charitable Trusts, poverty increased in 30% of all U.S. counties between 2016 and 2018. Researchers found that poverty cut across racial and geographic boundaries “from 97% white and solidly Republican-voting Carter County in Kentucky to black-majority, Democratic Bullock County in Alabama

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:13 am 
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This needs to be addressed by all of us.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:14 am 
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long time guy wrote:
https://talkpoverty.org/basics/

If they really want to correct the dysfunction then addressing this would be a good place to start.


Yeah those two lawyers in NYC who got arrested were poor oppressed minorities.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:18 am 
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I would like to see the numbers with transfer payments (welfare, SNAP, etc) included.

It's hard to imagine a family of four, with both adults working, making less than $26k. Even making $10/hr each, that's $40k. That's not to say those people/families don't exist, but there are opportunities out there to get above that threshold.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/12/23/poverty-in-america-is-rising-we-need-a-plan-to-fight-it/
Quote:
Here is a rarely publicized fact about our booming economy: Despite stock market highs and low unemployment, poverty in the U.S. is pervasive. The number of people earning less than $25,750 for a family of four is rising in both Republican and Democratic districts, and across racial and geographic lines. According to an analysis of Census Bureau data by Stateline, a division of the Pew Charitable Trusts, poverty increased in 30% of all U.S. counties between 2016 and 2018. Researchers found that poverty cut across racial and geographic boundaries “from 97% white and solidly Republican-voting Carter County in Kentucky to black-majority, Democratic Bullock County in Alabama


Be careful with stats though, if poverty increased in 30% of counties, that means it decreased in 70% of counties. I call that progress.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:55 am 
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denisdman wrote:
long time guy wrote:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/12/23/poverty-in-america-is-rising-we-need-a-plan-to-fight-it/
Quote:
Here is a rarely publicized fact about our booming economy: Despite stock market highs and low unemployment, poverty in the U.S. is pervasive. The number of people earning less than $25,750 for a family of four is rising in both Republican and Democratic districts, and across racial and geographic lines. According to an analysis of Census Bureau data by Stateline, a division of the Pew Charitable Trusts, poverty increased in 30% of all U.S. counties between 2016 and 2018. Researchers found that poverty cut across racial and geographic boundaries “from 97% white and solidly Republican-voting Carter County in Kentucky to black-majority, Democratic Bullock County in Alabama


Be careful with stats though, if poverty increased in 30% of counties, that means it decreased in 70% of counties. I call that progress.


What sort of progress? We have 40 million living below the poverty line in this country. Most people below that figure is too low.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:57 am 
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There is a lot more going on here than just poverty. Being poor doesn't lead to widespread rioting. It's being poor combined with the message that these people are to blame, and that American never really was worth saving.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:57 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
I would like to see the numbers with transfer payments (welfare, SNAP, etc) included.

It's hard to imagine a family of four, with both adults working, making less than $26k. Even making $10/hr each, that's $40k. That's not to say those people/families don't exist, but there are opportunities out there to get above that threshold.

There are plenty where it exists. Some may be single parent and if you are working with kids then you have to pay daycare costs.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:00 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
There is a lot more going on here than just poverty. Being poor doesn't lead to widespread rioting. It's being poor combined with the message that these people are to blame, and that American never really was worth saving.


To be honest I don't think you have a clue as to what being poor happens to be. Nor do you have a clue as to how abject poverty effects communities. You just regurgitate talking points and check Twitter for your not so well sourced information all the time.

America bails out MANY people. In a variety of ways. They can extend a similar courtesy to poor people too

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:04 am 
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denisdman wrote:
long time guy wrote:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/12/23/poverty-in-america-is-rising-we-need-a-plan-to-fight-it/
Quote:
Here is a rarely publicized fact about our booming economy: Despite stock market highs and low unemployment, poverty in the U.S. is pervasive. The number of people earning less than $25,750 for a family of four is rising in both Republican and Democratic districts, and across racial and geographic lines. According to an analysis of Census Bureau data by Stateline, a division of the Pew Charitable Trusts, poverty increased in 30% of all U.S. counties between 2016 and 2018. Researchers found that poverty cut across racial and geographic boundaries “from 97% white and solidly Republican-voting Carter County in Kentucky to black-majority, Democratic Bullock County in Alabama



Be careful with stats though, if poverty increased in 30% of counties, that means it decreased in 70% of counties. I call that progress.


Part of the 70% could have remained stagnant. At any rate I have heard discussions before that this is about poverty more than race. That usually gets dismissed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:09 am 
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Quote:
Overall Poverty Rate: 11.8% (38.1 million people)
Percentage of people who fell below the poverty line—$25,465 for a family of four—in 2018

Twice the Poverty Level: 28.9% (93.6 million people)
Percentage of people who fell below twice the poverty line—$50,930 for a family of four—in 2018

Half the Poverty Level: 5.3% (17.3 million people)
Percentage of people who fell below half the poverty line—$12,730 for a family of four—in 2018

Child Poverty Rate: 16.2% (11.9 million people)
Percentage of children under age 18 who fell below the poverty line in 2018

Women’s Poverty Rate: 12.9% (21.4 million people)
Percentage of females who fell below the poverty line in 2018

African American Poverty Rate: 20.8% (8.9 million people)
Percentage of African Americans who fell below the poverty line in 2018

Hispanic Poverty Rate: 17.6% (10.5 million people)
Percentage of Hispanics who fell below the poverty line in 2018

White Poverty Rate: 8.1% (15.7 million people)
Percentage of non-Hispanic Whites who fell below the poverty line in 2018

Native American Poverty Rate: 23.7% (600,000 people)
Percentage of Native Americans who fell below the poverty line in 2018

People with Disabilities Poverty Rate: 25.7% (3.8 million people)
Percentage of people with disabilities ages 18 to 64 who fell below the poverty line in 2018

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:14 am 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
There is a lot more going on here than just poverty. Being poor doesn't lead to widespread rioting. It's being poor combined with the message that these people are to blame, and that American never really was worth saving.


To be honest I don't think you have a clue as to what being poor happens to be. Nor do you have a clue as to how abject poverty effects communities. You just regurgitate talking points and check Twitter for your not so well sourced information all the time.

America bails out MANY people. In a variety of ways. They can extend a similar courtesy to poor people too


Where did this attitude that these people has no agency whatsoever come from? And what do you propose? Giving people money?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:21 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
There is a lot more going on here than just poverty. Being poor doesn't lead to widespread rioting. It's being poor combined with the message that these people are to blame, and that American never really was worth saving.


To be honest I don't think you have a clue as to what being poor happens to be. Nor do you have a clue as to how abject poverty effects communities. You just regurgitate talking points and check Twitter for your not so well sourced information all the time.

America bails out MANY people. In a variety of ways. They can extend a similar courtesy to poor people too


Where did this attitude that these people has no agency whatsoever come from? And what do you propose? Giving people money?


Explain what you mean by "no agency"

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:51 am 
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Seacrest alluded to it earlier. I think most poverty emerges from single parent homes and children forced to raise themselves. When they become adults they don't know how. People like to think a bunch of guys run the world from a smoky room, and they decide who get's to make it. I don't think that's the case.

I think we can help people, but their ultimate success relies on their own actions.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:58 am 
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Americans can take their entitlement mentality and shove it. There's nothing stopping anyone from buying stocks anymore, if you want to take part in the market-that-never-goes down you can. Download Robinhood and buy some SPY, maybe take all the money they're spending on Chipotle and Starbucks and try that.

What a joke this is.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:59 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seacrest alluded to it earlier. I think most poverty emerges from single parent homes and children forced to raise themselves. When they become adults they don't know how. People like to think a bunch of guys run the world from a smoky room, and they decide who get's to make it. I don't think that's the case.

I think we can help people, but their ultimate success relies on their own actions.
Pretty much all the evidence points to the best way to avoid poverty as an adult is to not be in poverty as a child. That doesn't mean it's impossible to overcome it but the odds are pretty stacked against people who are born into it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:59 am 
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Poverty in the USA arises from people in their forties who stay doing jobs meant for high school students, and then think they are entitled to live like a celebrity they see on TV.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:00 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Americans can take their entitlement mentality and shove it. There's nothing stopping anyone from buying stocks anymore, if you want to take part in the market-that-never-goes down you can. Download Robinhood and buy some SPY, maybe take all the money they're spending on Chipotle and Starbucks and try that.

What a joke this is.


Did you grow up in a home with two parents?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:02 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Americans can take their entitlement mentality and shove it. There's nothing stopping anyone from buying stocks anymore, if you want to take part in the market-that-never-goes down you can. Download Robinhood and buy some SPY, maybe take all the money they're spending on Chipotle and Starbucks and try that.

What a joke this is.


Did you grow up in a home with two parents?

I also grew up with a functioning brain. If you want to know something you can Google it, all the basic financial advice people need exists is out there in the world. You dont need your parents teaching it to you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:06 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seacrest alluded to it earlier. I think most poverty emerges from single parent homes and children forced to raise themselves. When they become adults they don't know how. People like to think a bunch of guys run the world from a smoky room, and they decide who get's to make it. I don't think that's the case.

I think we can help people, but their ultimate success relies on their own actions.


That's all noble and well but there are many ways in which people are helped by Govt in this society. As much as MANY like to believe that is all due to their cunning and genius, further and more extensive investigation strongly suggests that often it isn't.

We just witnessed it with bailout. The Stock Market only exists (particularly in its current state) because of the Government. 401ks plans (which everyone likes to boast about) are heavily subsidized by Government. Real Estate market in this country. Heavily subsidized by Govt..
The Government picks the winners and losers oft times in this society. We are loathe to admit it but it's mostly true.

Now this isn't to say that it's the Government's responsibility to "save" everyone. That's not their responsibility. However they can definitely do more than they are doing and if people really believe that they can survive without assistance then maybe they should simply pay their fair share of taxes and refuse all forms of a handout the next time its offering.

Without Govt to "prime the pump" Wall Street collapses tomorrow.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:07 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Poverty in the USA arises from people in their forties who stay doing jobs meant for high school students, and then think they are entitled to live like a celebrity they see on TV.


This is propaganda at work again.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:08 am 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seacrest alluded to it earlier. I think most poverty emerges from single parent homes and children forced to raise themselves. When they become adults they don't know how. People like to think a bunch of guys run the world from a smoky room, and they decide who get's to make it. I don't think that's the case.

I think we can help people, but their ultimate success relies on their own actions.


That's all noble and well but there are many ways in which people are helped by Govt in this society. As much as MANY like to believe that is all due to their cunning and genius, further and more extensive investigation strongly suggests that often it isn't.

We just witnessed it with bailout. The Stock Market only exists (particularly in its current state) because of the Government. 401ks plans (which everyone likes to boast about) are heavily subsidized by Government. Real Estate market in this country. Heavily subsidized by Govt..
The Government picks the winners and losers oft times in this society. We are loathe to admit it but it's mostly true.

Now this isn't to say that it's the Government's responsibility to "save" everyone. That's not their responsibility. They can definitely do more than they are doing and if people really believe that they can survive without assistance then maybe they should simply pay their fair share of taxes and refuse all forms of a handout the next time its offering.

Without Govt to "prime the pump" Wall Street collapses tomorrow.

We'll pretend this is all true, then why not buy index shares? If the game is rigged why not take part in the rigged game? Every American has access to the markets, you can get fees-free trading anywhere. If all the stocks do is go up this seems like a natural decision.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:09 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Americans can take their entitlement mentality and shove it. There's nothing stopping anyone from buying stocks anymore, if you want to take part in the market-that-never-goes down you can. Download Robinhood and buy some SPY, maybe take all the money they're spending on Chipotle and Starbucks and try that.

What a joke this is.


Did you grow up in a home with two parents?

I also grew up with a functioning brain. If you want to know something you can Google it, all the basic financial advice people need exists is out there in the world. You dont need your parents teaching it to you.

There are things (not just information) parents can teach children that Google can't.

Even two parents who don't know how to succeed can't teach children how to do it, though. Parents who know how to manage society for their own benefit are invaluable.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:09 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Seacrest alluded to it earlier. I think most poverty emerges from single parent homes and children forced to raise themselves. When they become adults they don't know how. People like to think a bunch of guys run the world from a smoky room, and they decide who get's to make it. I don't think that's the case.

I think we can help people, but their ultimate success relies on their own actions.
Pretty much all the evidence points to the best way to avoid poverty as an adult is to not be in poverty as a child. That doesn't mean it's impossible to overcome it but the odds are pretty stacked against people who are born into it.


Its particularly the case with people that have grown up in "extreme poverty" like conditions.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:10 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Americans can take their entitlement mentality and shove it. There's nothing stopping anyone from buying stocks anymore, if you want to take part in the market-that-never-goes down you can. Download Robinhood and buy some SPY, maybe take all the money they're spending on Chipotle and Starbucks and try that.

What a joke this is.


Did you grow up in a home with two parents?

I also grew up with a functioning brain. If you want to know something you can Google it, all the basic financial advice people need exists is out there in the world. You dont need your parents teaching it to you.


Was that a yes or a no?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:10 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
We'll pretend this is all true, then why not buy index shares? If the game is rigged why not take part in the rigged game? Every American has access to the markets, you can get fees-free trading anywhere. If all the stocks do is go up this seems like a natural decision.
I'm all for blaming those who make good money who waste it but in terms of people who live in poverty it's pretty outrageous to say "why not buy index shares?".

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:12 am 
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The poverty rate is generally on the decline, which was my point. It ebbs and flows with the economy. The raw number in poverty is generally up due to population growth. You also have the backdrop of very heavy immigration from lower income countries that we continue to absorb.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2019/demo/p60-266/Figure7.pdf

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:13 am 
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long time guy wrote:

Without Govt to "prime the pump" Wall Street collapses tomorrow.


Hard to argue with that. We are way past the point of these companies' stocks thriving without massive stock buybacks driven by zero interest rates. I've missed most of the stock run-up over the last decade because I was convinced prices would come back to reality. Now it's a rigged game (more than ever, at least).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:13 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
We'll pretend this is all true, then why not buy index shares? If the game is rigged why not take part in the rigged game? Every American has access to the markets, you can get fees-free trading anywhere. If all the stocks do is go up this seems like a natural decision.
I'm all for blaming those who make good money who waste it but in terms of people who live in poverty it's pretty outrageous to say "why not buy index shares?".


Outrageous is one word I guess.

Trying eating index futures or paying Peoples gas with them.

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