I'm kind of surprised JORR hasn't chimed in on this yet. It seems like it would be right in his wheelhouse.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

There's an excuse around corner once you start this argument. Every single time its the same bullshit that comes out. There's no really no getting through to it anymore, I just spent a page and a half talking about Belgium because, for a fleeting moment, some people came close to realizing the point and how good Americans (even low income Americans) have it. I cant do this with people who no perspective and haven't spent time elsewhere in the world.

We have this discussion from time to time around here. The U.S. has a very large pie that is divided very unevenly. Ideally you want to have a large pie divided more fairly. But that’s the rub, our system allows for successful people to make limitless cash while creating wealth and jobs all around them. No other country has such a wealth creating machine.

But we have a much lighter social safety net and a generally poor primary education system, which really hurts folks at the bottom.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

America is a bunch of fat retards thinking they should be the billionaire, not Jeff Bezos (or whoever).

I am with you on the primary education. Thing is I am not sure the cause has been identified or if it has addressed. We seem to blame this or that and throw money around but it can’t be this hard. It has to be social as for the most part primary education is the same math, spelling, English, basic science forever. Even history at that level is not complex.

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Elections have consequences.

Has anyone ever considered the quality of the students when lamenting the state of education? Like maybe these obese retards who can't get off the couch may have birthed kids as useless as they are?

The silver lining for the abject poverty is no one wants to migrate here.

Atlas you diss the hell out of America more than anything and your Belgium info was simply false.

Your worldliness is useless. You haven't spent much time in the ghetto. Certainly not more than I have. You have no frame of reference when it comes to abject poverty and how it effects people and random Twitter surfing isn't going to provide it for you.

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Therein lies the problem Denis. We bash the hell out of poor people and demean them at every turn as far as dependency goes and then we run an economic system that is all about dependence for corporate America.

There is no bigger welfare recipient in this country than the self professed "entrepreneurial" class. They are more reliant on Government than anyone yet they pretend as if they aren't. If we want to prevent periodic disruptions then we have to run a system that is more equitable and fair.

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The entrepreneurial class if very different from large cap publicly traded companies. I agree that they deserve to play by the rules if everyone else has to. You will find no qualm with me there.

So what specifically do you want? Just wealth transfer from the successful to the unsuccessful, that can't be your entire solution, but I have read four pages and still don't know what you are trying to say.

For example homelessness is a huge problem. Everybody should have at least 200 sf with heat, electricity, and water to call their own. But where? Is it wrong to say "your 200 sf are in Sycamore?" Or does somebody born at 49th and Federal have the right to say that they deserve an apartment in the south Loop because they want to be close to their grandma?

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

They can invest more money towards a child's post secondary education. That's the first thing. Raise the minimum wage. $7.25 or $7.75 is much too low Settle on a livable wage that will allow people to you know live.
Up the Welfare benefits for those that are dependent.
Raise the minimum poverty level from the archaic one that we currently use. Poverty level should be at least half of what the nation's median income happens to be.

Those are things we can provide tomorrow. There used to be a time when Pell Grant's covered the entire cost of a student's education. Not anymore.

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College education prices now are obscene, in part because colleges suck up student loans for degrees which can never realistically pay back the loans, but the college has its money and the student in some useless degree program is fucked.

My dad put me through 3 years at UIUC in the 80s. No financial aid, he was self employed in his own C corp, and not sharing his books with anyone. Total bill including coming dorms, $35/week allowance as an employee of his company, and coming down to visit me occasionally and buy lunch for a dozen of my hungry friends was under $26k for 3 years. Engineering job offers were about 22k to go be a surveyor. A reasonable ratio.

Disallowing guaranteed, not discharged with bankruptcy, student loans beyond 2 years starting salary should be a first step. Like you said, Pell grants used to matter.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Yeah and I think you referenced section 8 earlier. No one benefits more than the Real Estate developer/slum lord from Section 8. There is no bigger lobbyist in Washington than Real Estate developers when it comes to section 8. That is one of the programs that appears to strongly favor its recipients but upon further review mostly benefits developers.

The tenants get cheap rent and rundown neighborhoods while landlords get guaranteed Govt Contracts.

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the lobbyists are a common thread, just like the two party primary system. Universities lobby the hell out of their Congressional delegations. Neither party's leadership is particularly interested in change on these topics.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Any consideration for universal pre-K care?

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The whole thing is broken, and yet we have the greatest wealth creating country in history. We have four percent of the world’s population with 20% of the GDP. And the best global companies and brands and cultural influences are American.

The Federal Government’s entitlement programs are massive- Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. That money generally flows to the less affluent. The vast majority of income are paid by high earners. Half of all payroll taxes are paid by businesses. I am with you on crony capitalism, I hate it. But the government creates incentives for SBA loans and low income housing to encourage behavior. The fact that companies take advantage of that is the whole point.

It sucks being poor in a country with so much wealth. The only answer is better education. We can’t just say fuck corporate America that creates all the wealth that pays the taxes that keeps the machine running. The country has limitless opportunities. It is sad that many are not able to take advantage.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Teaching kids to read before K is very important. Development at three and four is key to getting ahead. All the studies show that.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

It seems if we are saying fuck poor people though. Education is part of it but we are pricing most people out with the high cost of college tuition these days. Without scholarships you're screwed. If we do not get a handle on the amount of inequality then get ready for a lot more of what we saw this weekend.

Just my opinion of course.

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The university bubble is real. If I ran my employer, I'd be setting up $15/hour internship programs for 18 year olds to come delay college and learn the realities of the entry level of my business: how to describe current conditions using data, how to write a report as a group, how to interview somebody on the phone, how to do a literature review. Graduate programs aren't really doing that, so undergraduate programs certainly are not. Parents are not getting value for their kids anymore.

Now with COVID yanking everyone into distance learning, why go to those universities?

A friend of mine is a science professor at a very liberal liberal arts college. Her administration is scared shitless that parents will just stop. But they aren't willing to cut tuition because high tuition it is the definition of prestige to a certain class of Trixies and Chads.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

It used to be the parents job to do that. Or they enrolled them in a park district or day care pre program. For some reason I missed this entire vast scarcity of pre school programs. Or is the word free the issue?

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Elections have consequences.

Both parents are working.

My mom was a 3rd grade teacher who gave it up when I was born. Our family room was plastered with reading readiness signs and posters. She never really directly taught me to read, but I was reading Life magazine out loud (and not understanding any of it) before 3.

The more we can pour into those programs, the better the ROI.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

You can go to any city college for free. 7 different schools if you graduate from CPS I believe.. I know Daley is free for certain.

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I get it. But the day cares have taken the place of pre school. And parents can read with kids in evenings as well. Sometimes it feels to me the big pre K thing is to simply get the kids into free government day care. They don’t even do well enough with k-3 now.

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Elections have consequences.

Yeah but after the 2 years you're paying heavily. Honestly if I were coming up today the City College route would be the way I'd go unless I had a scholarship. Particularly if I was trying to do post Graduate.

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Iused to be against all this stuff but fuck, we're writing trillion dollar checks in stimulus and aid the last couple months to keep things moving ( albeit shittilly) 500 billion or so to establish all youre talking about wouldve been a bargain and gona a long way to lifting folks innto a better place . maybe not everyone but it sure as shit wouldve made a dent.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Most of the cps teachers I know went to Eastern, it's still cheaper than most high schools.

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I think that should also have better systems in place for kids that are not planning to attend college also. I think we made a mistake with the one size fits all model that we currently have. School isn't for everyone and we have to have a better structure for kids that aren't planning to attend college. It can vocational or whatever but I think once we identify said student we should pivot them away from higher learning once he/we determine that College may not be the best thing for him/her.

The main thing should be for them to be productive citizens regardless of education attainment level. I think we as society try and force feed kids with that and at times it might be counterproductive

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Chicago State used to be cheap too but they loaded you up with a ton of classes which took people forever to get out. They ended sort of recouping there money back by doing it that way.

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Yeah but after the 2 years you're paying heavily. Honestly if I were coming up today the City College route would be the way I'd go unless I had a scholarship. Particularly if I was trying to do post Graduate.[/quote]


Most of the cps teachers I know went to Eastern, it's still cheaper than most high schools.[/quote]

Chicago State used to be cheap too but they loaded you up with a ton of classes which took people forever to get out. They ended sort of recouping there money back by doing it that way.[/quote]


I was never cut out for college, I talk to old timers who went to CVS that learned a trade that took them the next 45 years of their life..people haven't changed that much in 50 years.. There are plenty of cps kids who should be learning automotive skills and electrical skills, welding etc that gets them a good career at 18 years old.

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