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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:31 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you underestimate the cost of these programs annually. Also remember I'm not arguing to forego cameras completely, I'm just arguing against doubling the size of any given program to comply with shakes' incredibly exacting demands.

Chicago paid out half a billion over an 8 year period.

Doubling the amount of cameras is not going to have a major financial hit.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:31 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
He has. You were coming up with laughably stupid But What If's and he answered every single one of them. You had no rebuttal so you were left with "this isnt about the cameras" even tho it's the only subject we've been discussing for 2 pages now.

I don't have fantasies of killing cops, or anyone else. I just don't have any respect for them, and that's 100% due to their collective actions.

You're losing steam and flailing today pal. Retreat, regroup, and counter attack.

Idk he said he'd fire a police officer for leaving the station without making sure there was a backup camera in the car. Put a guy out of house and home for just that. His kids will have to leave school, he'll foreclose on his house...I mean good luck finding a job in this day and age with FIRED POLICE OFFICER on your resume. Basically a death sentence, all because he was in a hurry and forgot to make a thorough inspection of his car before he left.

But really, just to show you the attitude towards police officers we look no further than Ogie's treatment. He makes repeated terrorist threads with explicit calls to action, is given multiple opportunities to walk them back but never does and sometimes admits he shouldn't have made those threats but never says he didn't mean them. He's treated with some degree of light reverence for this, and can be counted on to come back the next and do it again.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:33 am 
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How much did the record heat in the area yesterday lead to things being calmer last night?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:33 am 
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alright, breaks over. I gotta do some actual real world lawyering instead of message board lawyering.
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:33 am 
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:37 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you underestimate the cost of these programs annually. Also remember I'm not arguing to forego cameras completely, I'm just arguing against doubling the size of any given program to comply with shakes' incredibly exacting demands.

Chicago paid out half a billion over an 8 year period.

Doubling the amount of cameras is not going to have a major financial hit.

This just isn't how the government thinks when it budgets.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:40 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

you think that is unique to black people?


If you have read my posts in this thread, you would understand that I don't think it's unique to any ethnic groups. I believe lower class people are harassed daily because they are voiceless and I believe that people are profiled based on appearances. If you appear to be from an unacceptable class then you will probably be harassed.

You don't see an issue with parents suppressing the individuality of a child out of fear of the way government may perceive them?


Yes, I see an issue but what parent doesn't do that in an array of ways outside of really liberal households?

I don't really say these things outside of to you and our community here out of fear that I'll be accused of dismissing someone's reality. However, I hear so many anecdotal items that are used as an example of differentiated treatment that sound absolutely familiar to my experience.

and I say this fully believing Chris Rock's joke about no white guy wanting to change places with him even though he is rich. I think there are all sorts of enhanced issues black america is burdened by. I also think there is some piling on.

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Last edited by good dolphin on Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:41 am 
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This thread can be summarized as Juice, WFR, and America making complete asses of their racist selves. They just want cops to be free to beat on black folks and realize body cameras would get in the way of that.

After all, if some civilian didn't videotape the murder of George Floyd, you know they would've claimed it was a natural death with no police involvement.

Police should want these cameras. If their actions are actually lawful, then these cameras will be their exculpatory evidence when they are accused of wrongdoing.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:42 am 
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I think that is the nicest thing Ogie has ever said about cops!

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:43 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you underestimate the cost of these programs annually. Also remember I'm not arguing to forego cameras completely, I'm just arguing against doubling the size of any given program to comply with shakes' incredibly exacting demands.

Chicago paid out half a billion over an 8 year period.

Doubling the amount of cameras is not going to have a major financial hit.


There have been 1224 people shot in Chicago this year as of last night. Only 5 by police. Things must be improving.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:46 am 
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Antarctica wrote:

But really, just to show you the attitude towards police officers we look no further than Ogie's treatment. He makes repeated terrorist threads with explicit calls to action, is given multiple opportunities to walk them back but never does and sometimes admits he shouldn't have made those threats but never says he didn't mean them. He's treated with some degree of light reverence for this, and can be counted on to come back the next and do it again.

Ogie's literally the only guy saying that. As you even noted, I probably dislike cops more than anyone on the board outside of Ogie and I'm not saying anything close to that either. You have no argument here.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:46 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He has. You were coming up with laughably stupid But What If's and he answered every single one of them. You had no rebuttal so you were left with "this isnt about the cameras" even tho it's the only subject we've been discussing for 2 pages now.

I don't have fantasies of killing cops, or anyone else. I just don't have any respect for them, and that's 100% due to their collective actions.

You're losing steam and flailing today pal. Retreat, regroup, and counter attack.

Idk he said he'd fire a police officer for leaving the station without making sure there was a backup camera in the car. Put a guy out of house and home for just that. His kids will have to leave school, he'll foreclose on his house...I mean good luck finding a job in this day and age with FIRED POLICE OFFICER on your resume. Basically a death sentence, all because he was in a hurry and forgot to make a thorough inspection of his car before he left.

But really, just to show you the attitude towards police officers we look no further than Ogie's treatment. He makes repeated terrorist threads with explicit calls to action, is given multiple opportunities to walk them back but never does and sometimes admits he shouldn't have made those threats but never says he didn't mean them. He's treated with some degree of light reverence for this, and can be counted on to come back the next and do it again.
If we’re still doing this half assed scenario , the actual inspection / Maintenance of the gear should have to be the responsibility of an independent party. Then both he and the officer sign off on it before the tour of duty that everything is working properly . Speaking of Ogie , what’s the body count of dead policemen now murdered in memory of George Floyd at ?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:46 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I think that is the nicest thing Ogie has ever said about cops!

The most damning argument that anyone could make that this isn't an idea aimed at punishing police for no valid reason is that domestic terrorism advocate Ogie is clearly in bad faith saying "wait, its actually GOOD for police".

Hey Ogie, have any lunatic fantasies you want to share today? Any dreams of an armed rampage through a police station? Say it loud say it proud, let's get that shit in your case file at the Hoover Building.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:47 am 
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:47 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Antarctica wrote:

But really, just to show you the attitude towards police officers we look no further than Ogie's treatment. He makes repeated terrorist threads with explicit calls to action, is given multiple opportunities to walk them back but never does and sometimes admits he shouldn't have made those threats but never says he didn't mean them. He's treated with some degree of light reverence for this, and can be counted on to come back the next and do it again.

Ogie's literally the only guy saying that. As you even noted, I probably dislike cops more than anyone on the board outside of Ogie and I'm not saying anything close to that either. You have no argument here.

No, you're just thinking it. Honestly, enough police officers have died over the last week that the whole "only good cop is a dead cop" routine really isn't cute or funny. Grow the fuck up.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:48 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you underestimate the cost of these programs annually. Also remember I'm not arguing to forego cameras completely, I'm just arguing against doubling the size of any given program to comply with shakes' incredibly exacting demands.

Chicago paid out half a billion over an 8 year period.

Doubling the amount of cameras is not going to have a major financial hit.


There have been 1224 people shot in Chicago this year as of last night. Only 5 by police. Things must be improving.

That .04% is the real problem. Needs to be zero .

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:48 am 
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What if a solar storm shows up that is similar to past events that would destroy all electronics that are currently on in the United States pushing us into a time where power grids fail and it is impossible to power the cameras and then a police officer sees a person jaywalking? Can they write this person a ticket or do they have to wait until society rebuilds in a world where electronics basically don't exist for 6 to 18 months. Did anyone think of that?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:49 am 
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The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?

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Last edited by good dolphin on Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:51 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?

That’s what our current police commissioner said when Ogies hero ambushed those cops in Dallas . For all you arm chair quarterbacks , we are hiring . Come be the change you want and make a difference .

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:53 am 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The "enhanced training" is just going to feature a bunch of connected city contractors getting giant consulting gigs to stage workshops and seminars that the cops blow off and dont take seriously. The police by-and-large know what does and doesn't get them in trouble but there is a colossal problem in that all it takes is one of the over one million police officers in America to fuck up once on camera for people to go into a full scale riot.


I don't think they do know techniques that get them in trouble. It seems that in tense situations they fall back on some outdated methods. Updated training will result in those moments when they rely on muscle memory to remember better mehtods. Anyway, most licensed professions require continuing education. There is nothing wrong with a yearly update on policing.

I do agree that classes from instructors in the community just screams corruption for the relative of an alderman. However, you have to try. There is a uniqueness to policing neighborhoods in Chicago and not just african american neighborhoods. Chinatown demands different methods than Pilsen or Canaryville, even though the often blend physically

I think you spend more time and money educating the youth in underprivileged areas. As I posted here from Kevin Hart's interview with Joe Rogan, much of what keeps underprivileged youth from achieving things as easily is not just the money they don't have at the moment, it is the guidance. Provide programs that provide such guidance if it is lacking, and you are working on the foundation from the ground-up.

They can also run the cops through monthly psychological screenings. If you do what I said above, I don't think cops need to be taught that much more than they already know, but we can try to weed out the yippie-kai-aye, muthafucka! ones as best we can.


Hey, I wonder if universal pre-K would help with this?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:53 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?

Maybe too many white supremacists have infiltrated the police for that to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:54 am 
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I got through the polygraph. Had a moment of clarity and realized it wasn't great being public enemy numero uno.

Now I'm part of an even more amoral system but the whole "hate military contractors" thing is so Bush-era.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:55 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?

Maybe too many white supremacists have infiltrated the police for that to happen.

Remember in Ferguson when that huge expose was coming out about the officers being members of the KKK ??

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What if a solar storm shows up that is similar to past events that would destroy all electronics that are currently on in the United States pushing us into a time where power grids fail and it is impossible to power the cameras and then a police officer sees a person jaywalking? Can they write this person a ticket or do they have to wait until society rebuilds in a world where electronics basically don't exist for 6 to 18 months. Did anyone think of that?


is that an episode of Quantum Leap ?


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:58 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:00 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?


Similar to the trade union conversation various social factors make the job not desirable by our youth. The gamut of reasons from laziness to dreaming of great giant things I am sure.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:01 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?

Maybe too many white supremacists have infiltrated the police for that to happen.

Remember in Ferguson when that huge expose was coming out about the officers being members of the KKK ??

Remember after Ferguson when all those people mysteriously died?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:01 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The "enhanced training" is just going to feature a bunch of connected city contractors getting giant consulting gigs to stage workshops and seminars that the cops blow off and dont take seriously. The police by-and-large know what does and doesn't get them in trouble but there is a colossal problem in that all it takes is one of the over one million police officers in America to fuck up once on camera for people to go into a full scale riot.


I don't think they do know techniques that get them in trouble. It seems that in tense situations they fall back on some outdated methods. Updated training will result in those moments when they rely on muscle memory to remember better mehtods. Anyway, most licensed professions require continuing education. There is nothing wrong with a yearly update on policing.

I do agree that classes from instructors in the community just screams corruption for the relative of an alderman. However, you have to try. There is a uniqueness to policing neighborhoods in Chicago and not just african american neighborhoods. Chinatown demands different methods than Pilsen or Canaryville, even though the often blend physically

I think you spend more time and money educating the youth in underprivileged areas. As I posted here from Kevin Hart's interview with Joe Rogan, much of what keeps underprivileged youth from achieving things as easily is not just the money they don't have at the moment, it is the guidance. Provide programs that provide such guidance if it is lacking, and you are working on the foundation from the ground-up.

They can also run the cops through monthly psychological screenings. If you do what I said above, I don't think cops need to be taught that much more than they already know, but we can try to weed out the yippie-kai-aye, muthafucka! ones as best we can.


Hey, I wonder if universal pre-K would help with this?

I think it involves placing adult men in these childrens' lives.

It involves giving the affected a Father Figure.

Sexist or not, whether you are male or female, there is an education that you get from your dad that is almost essential. Having it just from one side, you are left with a deficit.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?


All you need is an Associate's degree or three years in the military. Most of my friends who are cops joined becuase they could not find a good paying job in their college field in the early 2000s. A few others actually were criminal justice majors.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The other really obvious and easy police reform is better recruitment and hiring in the african american community.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits and plenty of room for quick advancement. It's also a noble undertaking. We can build high school programs feeding kids into the military but not the police?


On point.

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