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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:07 pm 
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I wonder how many cameras DuPage County could purchase if they sold one of their APCs?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:07 pm 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The "enhanced training" is just going to feature a bunch of connected city contractors getting giant consulting gigs to stage workshops and seminars that the cops blow off and dont take seriously. The police by-and-large know what does and doesn't get them in trouble but there is a colossal problem in that all it takes is one of the over one million police officers in America to fuck up once on camera for people to go into a full scale riot.


I don't think they do know techniques that get them in trouble. It seems that in tense situations they fall back on some outdated methods. Updated training will result in those moments when they rely on muscle memory to remember better mehtods. Anyway, most licensed professions require continuing education. There is nothing wrong with a yearly update on policing.

I do agree that classes from instructors in the community just screams corruption for the relative of an alderman. However, you have to try. There is a uniqueness to policing neighborhoods in Chicago and not just african american neighborhoods. Chinatown demands different methods than Pilsen or Canaryville, even though the often blend physically

I think you spend more time and money educating the youth in underprivileged areas. As I posted here from Kevin Hart's interview with Joe Rogan, much of what keeps underprivileged youth from achieving things as easily is not just the money they don't have at the moment, it is the guidance. Provide programs that provide such guidance if it is lacking, and you are working on the foundation from the ground-up.
.


At one time we did this in this country and then somewhere around the Reagan era a lot of this sort of thing stopped. The narrative changed about helping disadvantaged people even though those programs were proven to have worked. The poverty rate in this country dropped tremendously as a result of those programs yet all people ever heard was that they were a failure.

Now everyone is bellyaching about the kids "destroying their own community". What community? They own nothing. Their parents own nothing and the people that do own the businesses in those communities do not even live in them.

We can continue to only look at the failings of the people that were looting or we can look at what led them to loot. If we continue to ignore some of the factors that led them to loot because after all "the stock market had a great day" then we shouldn't whine once this happens again.

This isn't to absolve them of anything and I will be the first one to say lock them up if they're captured. They deserve to be locked up for committing a crime. However if the conditions which existed prior to this are allowed to continue, then this will happen again.
We as a country cannot continue to feed the poor shit in this country and convince them that they are getting a healthy meal.

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Last edited by long time guy on Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:09 pm 
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Boom! Fuckers! Hope you look good in Orange!


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:10 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
I got through the polygraph. Had a moment of clarity and realized it wasn't great being public enemy numero uno.

Now I'm part of an even more amoral system but the whole "hate military contractors" thing is so Bush-era.


You were deluded. I played little league with four guys who became cops. These guys are of modest talent. Two lieutenants and one sargeant. They will be retired in five years with condos in Clearwater, a nice pension and an easy ability to find another nice paying job should they choose. They also bought farmland in Tennessee they are subdividing between them. They live in modest but nice houses in good parts of the city. They get to commiserate in their own private club but also have plenty of time to have fun in their community.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:11 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

you think that is unique to black people?


If you have read my posts in this thread, you would understand that I don't think it's unique to any ethnic groups. I believe lower class people are harassed daily because they are voiceless and I believe that people are profiled based on appearances. If you appear to be from an unacceptable class then you will probably be harassed.

You don't see an issue with parents suppressing the individuality of a child out of fear of the way government may perceive them?


Yes, I see an issue but what parent doesn't do that in an array of ways outside of really liberal households?

I don't really say these things outside of to you and our community here out of fear that I'll be accused of dismissing someone's reality. However, I hear so many anecdotal items that are used as an example of differentiated treatment that sound absolutely familiar to my experience.

and I say this fully believing Chris Rock's joke about no white guy wanting to change places with him even though he is rich. I think there are all sorts of enhanced issues black america is burdened by. I also think there is some piling on.


Yes, we worry about everything. That doesn’t mean that it should be okay for us to have fear the people we pay to protect us and keep society from collapsing.

I've always respected and valued your views so I doubt you will have that problem with me. My experience and those of some of my friends as adults and an internship in CC Circuit Court has me convinced that it isn't a racial issue, but an issue of class or perceived class. Even anecdotally, I've seen far more black detectives, cops and member of gang units beat the crap out of blacks just because than I've seen a white cop do something that I thought was questionable or racist. That doesn't mean that I don't believe racial bias exists in law enforcement. Reducing this to a black issue feels like just another attempt to give corrupt cops another get out of jail free card because necessary reforms won't happen.

I understand the point Chris Rock is making, but a rich black man's expert is far directly than a poor black man's experience. Nearly everyone except the people who are wealthier or nearly as wealthy would trade places with him.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
I think you underestimate the cost of these programs annually. Also remember I'm not arguing to forego cameras completely, I'm just arguing against doubling the size of any given program to comply with shakes' incredibly exacting demands.

Chicago paid out half a billion over an 8 year period.

Doubling the amount of cameras is not going to have a major financial hit.
That's a bit of fallacious reasoning though, isn't it? A body camera program need not be more expensive than the amount of civil judgements paid out to be cost ineffective, it only needs to cost more than the amount said program reduces civil judgements. If you spend $20 million annually on a camera program with 7,000 cameras for officers (the size of the CPD program), you have to reduce civil payouts by at least that much. Chicago actually more than doubled their amount of civil judgement payouts since the camera program was expanded to every officer in 2017. (No, I'm not arguing that increasing the number of cameras has a causal relationship with the increase in payouts from 2017 to 2018)


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:12 pm 
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FukNuggitt wrote:
Boom! Fuckers! Hope you look good in Orange!



If he makes a public statement that he has them he damn well better release them, otherwise its a bullshit election year ploy

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:13 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Boom! Fuckers! Hope you look good in Orange!



If he makes a public statement that he has them he damn well better release them, otherwise its a bullshit election year ploy

Its a bullshit election year ploy.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:14 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Boom! Fuckers! Hope you look good in Orange!



If he makes a public statement that he has them he damn well better release them, otherwise its a bullshit election year ploy


That's something that should just be done and not merely threatened to be done.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:24 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Antarctica wrote:

But really, just to show you the attitude towards police officers we look no further than Ogie's treatment. He makes repeated terrorist threads with explicit calls to action, is given multiple opportunities to walk them back but never does and sometimes admits he shouldn't have made those threats but never says he didn't mean them. He's treated with some degree of light reverence for this, and can be counted on to come back the next and do it again.

Ogie's literally the only guy saying that. As you even noted, I probably dislike cops more than anyone on the board outside of Ogie and I'm not saying anything close to that either. You have no argument here.

No, you're just thinking it. Honestly, enough police officers have died over the last week that the whole "only good cop is a dead cop" routine really isn't cute or funny. Grow the fuck up.

I never said that, and I wasn't thinking it.

As I keep mentioning, you have no argument left in this thread. Just leave. Resorting to lying about other poster's arguments is simply pathetic.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:27 pm 
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Tad Queasy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Boom! Fuckers! Hope you look good in Orange!



If he makes a public statement that he has them he damn well better release them, otherwise its a bullshit election year ploy


That's something that should just be done and not merely threatened to be done.

Yeah if its true let it out. I sincerely doubt you have a Diblasio email to joeBlow@Anifa.net telling him " yeah the bricks are on the 59th St bridge. Slow down you're moving too fast " type stuff though.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:29 pm 
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Barr is doubling down on his loyalty oath after his boss let him take the heat for clearing a path to the church

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:29 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Tad Queasy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Boom! Fuckers! Hope you look good in Orange!



If he makes a public statement that he has them he damn well better release them, otherwise its a bullshit election year ploy


That's something that should just be done and not merely threatened to be done.

Yeah if its true let it out. I sincerely doubt you have a Diblasio email to joeBlow@Anifa.net telling him " yeah the bricks are on the 59th St bridge. Slow down you're moving too fast " type stuff though.

It's clearly bullshit as you and Tad mention. If he had them, release them now, and turn a whole bunch of people on the fence on your side. Not a difficult decision even for a fucking idiot like Barr.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:30 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Tad Queasy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
FukNuggitt wrote:
Boom! Fuckers! Hope you look good in Orange!



If he makes a public statement that he has them he damn well better release them, otherwise its a bullshit election year ploy


That's something that should just be done and not merely threatened to be done.

Yeah if its true let it out. I sincerely doubt you have a Diblasio email to joeBlow@Anifa.net telling him " yeah the bricks are on the 59th St bridge. Slow down you're moving too fast " type stuff though.


Who is the guy in the tweet that "reported" this?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:30 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:

Who is the guy in the tweet that "reported" this?

Literally some dude who lost a congressional race.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

Who is the guy in the tweet that "reported" this?

Literally some dude who lost a congressional race.

:lol: Well hes definitely legit then

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:37 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

Who is the guy in the tweet that "reported" this?

Literally some dude who lost a congressional race.

:lol: Well hes definitely legit then


I just saw that Panthro sourced this. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

Who is the guy in the tweet that "reported" this?

Literally some dude who lost a congressional race.

:lol: Well hes definitely legit then


I just saw that Panthro sourced this. :lol:

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:53 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

Who is the guy in the tweet that "reported" this?

Literally some dude who lost a congressional race.

:lol: Well hes definitely legit then


I just saw that Panthro sourced this. :lol:

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:16 pm 
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Okay the AG is now upping the charge to 2nd degree and the other three are being charged. Anything from this point on any disturbance is bs.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:17 pm 
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With regard to the body cameras, it would be easy to set them up to default to always on when they are removed from a charging mechanism. They could be manually paused briefly for personal moments. Shutting them off for anything longer would require an action which would be traceable (ie - the camera was manually shut off at 2:37 am). Audible and visual alerts would indicate malfunctions.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:19 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Okay the AG is now upping the charge to 2nd degree and the other three are being charged. Anything from this point on any disturbance is bs.


yup, blacks got what they wanted. they NOW have nothing to complain about. cease the movement immediately!!!


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:20 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Okay the AG is now upping the charge to 2nd degree and the other three are being charged. Anything from this point on any disturbance is bs.
the "disturbances" were triggered by the event, they are not solely about the event.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:22 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Okay the AG is now upping the charge to 2nd degree and the other three are being charged. Anything from this point on any disturbance is bs.
If the prosecutors feel they can get a conviction on 2nd degree, fine. Otherwise, an overcharge to playcate the masses now makes zero sense. The cop must be convicted. If he walks after a trial- because 1st/2nd degree was not able to be proven- then we will start this unrest all over again.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm 
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tim mccarver wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Okay the AG is now upping the charge to 2nd degree and the other three are being charged. Anything from this point on any disturbance is bs.
If the prosecutors feel they can get a conviction on 2nd degree, fine. Otherwise, an overcharge to playcate the masses now makes zero sense. The cop must be convicted. If he walks after a trial- because 1st/2nd degree was not able to be proven- then we will start this unrest all over again.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Okay the AG is now upping the charge to 2nd degree and the other three are being charged. Anything from this point on any disturbance is bs.
If the prosecutors feel they can get a conviction on 2nd degree, fine. Otherwise, an overcharge to playcate the masses now makes zero sense. The cop must be convicted. If he walks after a trial- because 1st/2nd degree was not able to be proven- then we will start this unrest all over again.


I totally agree.

Edit: Also with police being murdered in the street, letthem off the leash. Letthem start shooting and taking the baton to these fucks

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Last edited by chaspoppcap on Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:26 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Okay the AG is now upping the charge to 2nd degree and the other three are being charged. Anything from this point on any disturbance is bs.
If the prosecutors feel they can get a conviction on 2nd degree, fine. Otherwise, an overcharge to playcate the masses now makes zero sense. The cop must be convicted. If he walks after a trial- because 1st/2nd degree was not able to be proven- then we will start this unrest all over again.


If that's the case, then the entire movement is exposed as bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:29 pm 
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What are the others being charged with?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:32 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
What are the others being charged with?


Don't think they've said yet.

Press conference later will probably make it official.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:32 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
What are the others being charged with?

Aiding and Abetting murder.

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