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Charges for Derek Chauvin ?
1st Degree Murder 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
2nd Degree Murder 36%  36%  [ 10 ]
Voluntary Manslaughter 39%  39%  [ 11 ]
Involuntary Manslaughter 14%  14%  [ 4 ]
No Charges 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 28
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:11 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So the argument is now that Chauvin's actions at some point became felony assault of Floyd, or even that the restraint itself was outright felony assault? That seems like a potentially dangerous precedent to set.


I'd assume the argument will be that kneeling on the neck was felony assault.

Just a guess though.
Deciding to criminalize the prone restraint (of which a knee on the upper-back or neck is a component) in its own right sounds like a recipe for ending up with cops just letting criminals go or more instances where more violent criminals gain an upper hand on the officers.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:31 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:00 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So the argument is now that Chauvin's actions at some point became felony assault of Floyd, or even that the restraint itself was outright felony assault? That seems like a potentially dangerous precedent to set.


I'd assume the argument will be that kneeling on the neck was felony assault.

Just a guess though.
Deciding to criminalize the prone restraint (of which a knee on the upper-back or neck is a component) in its own right sounds like a recipe for ending up with cops just letting criminals go or more instances where more violent criminals gain an upper hand on the officers.
I don't know what exactly you are arguing, but yes, a knee to the neck shouldn't be allowed to restrain a suspect.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:28 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So the argument is now that Chauvin's actions at some point became felony assault of Floyd, or even that the restraint itself was outright felony assault? That seems like a potentially dangerous precedent to set.


I'd assume the argument will be that kneeling on the neck was felony assault.

Just a guess though.
Deciding to criminalize the prone restraint (of which a knee on the upper-back or neck is a component) in its own right sounds like a recipe for ending up with cops just letting criminals go or more instances where more violent criminals gain an upper hand on the officers.
I don't know what exactly you are arguing, but yes, a knee to the neck shouldn't be allowed to restrain a suspect.
Criminalizing a way officers can exert sufficiently superior force to do their job (like arrest a resisting suspect) will make those officers less effective, period.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:31 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Criminalizing a way officers can exert sufficiently superior force to do their job (like arrest a resisting suspect) will make those officers less effective, period.
We limit the ways that officers can exert sufficiently superior force now. Holding your knee down on a suspects neck shouldn't be allowed because as I'm sure you are aware it is a good way to kill someone to not let them breathe.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:56 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Criminalizing a way officers can exert sufficiently superior force to do their job (like arrest a resisting suspect) will make those officers less effective, period.
We limit the ways that officers can exert sufficiently superior force now. Holding your knee down on a suspects neck shouldn't be allowed because as I'm sure you are aware it is a good way to kill someone to not let them breathe.


It's about the precedent, Brick. The Floyd situation obviously went too far and the cop in question will rightly never police the streets again. Floyd will also never walk the streets again, so that's obviously tragic, but it's not due to the concept of exerting force to subdue a suspect. It's due to the individual actions of the officer. I'm sure you want the cop you call to your home to stop a violent invasion to use all available means to neutralize the suspect, even when he's at the point of resisting arrest. Let's not let the actions of one guy (and it's probably more than one guy, of course) dictate how police are supposed to deal with actual threats moving forward.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:04 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
It's about the precedent, Brick. The Floyd situation obviously went too far and the cop in question will rightly never police the streets again. Floyd will also never walk the streets again, so that's obviously tragic, but it's not due to the concept of exerting force to subdue a suspect. It's due to the individual actions of the officer. I'm sure you want the cop you call to your home to stop a violent invasion to use all available means to neutralize the suspect, even when he's at the point of resisting arrest. Let's not let the actions of one guy (and it's probably more than one guy, of course) dictate how police are supposed to deal with actual threats moving forward.

You are comparing the situations where lethal force is acceptable and the situations where lethal force is not acceptable. In a violent home invasion they aren't going to be stopping the suspect with a knee on the neck. They will be shooting them. However, if we extend the hypothetical situation to one in which a violent criminal is in my home trying to harm me then the same reason they could justifiably shoot them would protect them from using a knee to the neck.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:47 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Criminalizing a way officers can exert sufficiently superior force to do their job (like arrest a resisting suspect) will make those officers less effective, period.
We limit the ways that officers can exert sufficiently superior force now. Holding your knee down on a suspects neck shouldn't be allowed because as I'm sure you are aware it is a good way to kill someone to not let them breathe.


It's about the precedent, Brick. The Floyd situation obviously went too far and the cop in question will rightly never police the streets again. Floyd will also never walk the streets again, so that's obviously tragic, but it's not due to the concept of exerting force to subdue a suspect. It's due to the individual actions of the officer. I'm sure you want the cop you call to your home to stop a violent invasion to use all available means to neutralize the suspect, even when he's at the point of resisting arrest. Let's not let the actions of one guy (and it's probably more than one guy, of course) dictate how police are supposed to deal with actual threats moving forward.


This is all a stupid joke. Letting the anarchists take charge of what police departments are and aren't allowed to do is crazy. talk about an insane reaction. Disbanding a city's police department is basically letting criminals win. The city has surrendered and left its citizens open to criminals. Congratulations to George Soros on his victory.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:50 pm 
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One-and-a-quarter million dollar bail. Yowza.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:54 pm 
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TBH he's probably safer in custody.

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