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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:45 pm 
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Someone explain to me why the second officer was charged with aggravated assault and violation of oath?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:48 pm 
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Nas wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If this type of deadly force is taught in academies or allowed, I think we need to reevaluate that. But I suspect the cop will be found not guilty. This is a real close one. What should have happened is that the cops should not have chased as I have said before much like a high speed chase that is discontinued.

We need to raise the standard for deadly force and work towards deescalation. This probably could have been defused at an earlier point.


The situation seemed pretty de-escalated just prior to Brooks deciding to bolt. Now if you're saying they should have let him run at that point, understand that police would no longer be able to arrest anyone short of a violent crime, since they will all run knowing the police can't or won't chase.


My concern is chasing after a man that took an officer’s weapon. This is going to end up with someone dead most of the time. And started as a guy sleeping in his car. That should never end in a dead suspect.


You can make the case that he didn’t follow department policy, but I'm not sure how that becomes murder.

Wasn't he charged with felony murder? Sorry, I'm not following that today. I know the Wendy's that got torched a little too well.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:50 pm 
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FrankDrebin wrote:
Someone explain to me why the second officer was charged with aggravated assault and violation of oath?


I think Brooks wasn't quite flatlined when one of them kicked him and the other stood on his (Brooks') shoulder.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If this type of deadly force is taught in academies or allowed, I think we need to reevaluate that. But I suspect the cop will be found not guilty. This is a real close one. What should have happened is that the cops should not have chased as I have said before much like a high speed chase that is discontinued.

We need to raise the standard for deadly force and work towards deescalation. This probably could have been defused at an earlier point.


The situation seemed pretty de-escalated just prior to Brooks deciding to bolt. Now if you're saying they should have let him run at that point, understand that police would no longer be able to arrest anyone short of a violent crime, since they will all run knowing the police can't or won't chase.


If you have identified a person (name, address, etc) and they run away, were are they going to hide?
Yes! Officers should just let people take their weapons and assault them with it, then let them run off into the night with those weapons!

How is a weapon if it had already been fired twice and couldn't be fired again?
Are you arguing that the officer should have known that the taser shot Brooks fired at his face was the last because he should have remembered that his partner's taser was already fired once earlier in the melee? Not to bite BRogue's bit, but let's go out in a parking lot, I'll take a couple swings at you while you try to wrestle me to the ground and end up having to fire your own taser, then I'll fire a taser at your face and you can tell me immediately whether I have any shots left.

This is why MANY are taught to treat any kind of firearm that they haven't personally inspected as loaded and ready to fire.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:55 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
shakes is right here. Imagine that, a real lawyer having the proper analysis over internet lawyers.

:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
shakes is right here. Imagine that, a real lawyer having the proper analysis over internet lawyers.


i know, it's crazy right. I'm on a roll this week. Had two work comp phone pre-trials and kicked ass in both and those were versus real lawyers.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:58 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If this type of deadly force is taught in academies or allowed, I think we need to reevaluate that. But I suspect the cop will be found not guilty. This is a real close one. What should have happened is that the cops should not have chased as I have said before much like a high speed chase that is discontinued.

We need to raise the standard for deadly force and work towards deescalation. This probably could have been defused at an earlier point.


The situation seemed pretty de-escalated just prior to Brooks deciding to bolt. Now if you're saying they should have let him run at that point, understand that police would no longer be able to arrest anyone short of a violent crime, since they will all run knowing the police can't or won't chase.


If you have identified a person (name, address, etc) and they run away, were are they going to hide?
Yes! Officers should just let people take their weapons and assault them with it, then let them run off into the night with those weapons!

How is a weapon if it had already been fired twice and couldn't be fired again?
Are you arguing that the officer should have known that the taser shot Brooks fired at his face was the last because he should have remembered that his partner's taser was already fired once earlier in the melee? Not to bite BRogue's bit, but let's go out in a parking lot, I'll take a couple swings at you while you try to wrestle me to the ground and end up having to fire your own taser, then I'll fire a taser at your face and you can tell me immediately whether I have any shots left.

This is why MANY are taught to treat any kind of firearm that they haven't personally inspected as loaded and ready to fire.

So it would be okay if I shoot you in the back while you are running away after our skirmish?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:04 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
The police have to be the adults in the room and deescalate. They are going to encounter people with mental illness, on drugs, or drunk. These suspects are not going to act rationally in many cases. I don’t want them shot dead.


yep, this is a similar rationale to why we have dram shop laws.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If this type of deadly force is taught in academies or allowed, I think we need to reevaluate that. But I suspect the cop will be found not guilty. This is a real close one. What should have happened is that the cops should not have chased as I have said before much like a high speed chase that is discontinued.

We need to raise the standard for deadly force and work towards deescalation. This probably could have been defused at an earlier point.


The situation seemed pretty de-escalated just prior to Brooks deciding to bolt. Now if you're saying they should have let him run at that point, understand that police would no longer be able to arrest anyone short of a violent crime, since they will all run knowing the police can't or won't chase.


If you have identified a person (name, address, etc) and they run away, were are they going to hide?
Yes! Officers should just let people take their weapons and assault them with it, then let them run off into the night with those weapons!

How is a weapon if it had already been fired twice and couldn't be fired again?



sounds like you've never had a paper weight thrown at your head.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:

If you have identified a person (name, address, etc) and they run away, were are they going to hide?
Yes! Officers should just let people take their weapons and assault them with it, then let them run off into the night with those weapons!

How is a weapon if it had already been fired twice and couldn't be fired again?
Are you arguing that the officer should have known that the taser shot Brooks fired at his face was the last because he should have remembered that his partner's taser was already fired once earlier in the melee? Not to bite BRogue's bit, but let's go out in a parking lot, I'll take a couple swings at you while you try to wrestle me to the ground and end up having to fire your own taser, then I'll fire a taser at your face and you can tell me immediately whether I have any shots left.

This is why MANY are taught to treat any kind of firearm that they haven't personally inspected as loaded and ready to fire.

So it would be okay if I shoot you in the back while you are running away after our skirmish?
Am I still armed with the weapon I turned to fire at you while you pursued me fleeing?


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

So it would be okay if I shoot you in the back
Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Are you arguing that the officer should have known that the taser shot Brooks fired at his face was the last because he should have remembered that his partner's taser was already fired once earlier in the melee? Not to bite BRogue's bit, but let's go out in a parking lot, I'll take a couple swings at you while you try to wrestle me to the ground and end up having to fire your own taser, then I'll fire a taser at your face and you can tell me immediately whether I have any shots left.

This is why MANY are taught to treat any kind of firearm that they haven't personally inspected as loaded and ready to fire.

So it would be okay if I shoot you in the back while you are running away after our skirmish?

I'd be okay with it.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Nas wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
If this type of deadly force is taught in academies or allowed, I think we need to reevaluate that. But I suspect the cop will be found not guilty. This is a real close one. What should have happened is that the cops should not have chased as I have said before much like a high speed chase that is discontinued.

We need to raise the standard for deadly force and work towards deescalation. This probably could have been defused at an earlier point.


The situation seemed pretty de-escalated just prior to Brooks deciding to bolt. Now if you're saying they should have let him run at that point, understand that police would no longer be able to arrest anyone short of a violent crime, since they will all run knowing the police can't or won't chase.


My concern is chasing after a man that took an officer’s weapon. This is going to end up with someone dead most of the time. And started as a guy sleeping in his car. That should never end in a dead suspect.


You can make the case that he didn’t follow department policy, but I'm not sure how that becomes murder.

Wasn't he charged with felony murder? Sorry, I'm not following that today. I know the Wendy's that got torched a little too well.


Yes

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:11 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:

If you have identified a person (name, address, etc) and they run away, were are they going to hide?
Yes! Officers should just let people take their weapons and assault them with it, then let them run off into the night with those weapons!

How is a weapon if it had already been fired twice and couldn't be fired again?
Are you arguing that the officer should have known that the taser shot Brooks fired at his face was the last because he should have remembered that his partner's taser was already fired once earlier in the melee? Not to bite BRogue's bit, but let's go out in a parking lot, I'll take a couple swings at you while you try to wrestle me to the ground and end up having to fire your own taser, then I'll fire a taser at your face and you can tell me immediately whether I have any shots left.

This is why MANY are taught to treat any kind of firearm that they haven't personally inspected as loaded and ready to fire.

So it would be okay if I shoot you in the back while you are running away after our skirmish?
Am I still armed with the weapon I turned to fire at you while you pursued me fleeing?

Doesn't matter. Either way I can't shoot you in the back while you are fleeing. I mean I guess I could but I'd be charged with murder.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Yes! Officers should just let people take their weapons and assault them with it, then let them run off into the night with those weapons!

How is a weapon if it had already been fired twice and couldn't be fired again?
Are you arguing that the officer should have known that the taser shot Brooks fired at his face was the last because he should have remembered that his partner's taser was already fired once earlier in the melee? Not to bite BRogue's bit, but let's go out in a parking lot, I'll take a couple swings at you while you try to wrestle me to the ground and end up having to fire your own taser, then I'll fire a taser at your face and you can tell me immediately whether I have any shots left.

This is why MANY are taught to treat any kind of firearm that they haven't personally inspected as loaded and ready to fire.

So it would be okay if I shoot you in the back while you are running away after our skirmish?
Am I still armed with the weapon I turned to fire at you while you pursued me fleeing?

Doesn't matter. Either way I can't shoot you in the back while you are fleeing. I mean I guess I could but I'd be charged with murder.
So then you two are arguing that fleeing really is just a license to blast away back at the cops pursuing you. That's literally what you're arguing here, and there's not a single chance that's the law.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:22 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So then you two are arguing that fleeing really is just a license to blast away back at the cops pursuing you. That's literally what you're arguing here, and there's not a single chance that's the law.

No it's not because he wasn't blasting away at the cops chasing him. If he turned around and pointed a gun at them that would change the analysis. Facts matter.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:30 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So then you two are arguing that fleeing really is just a license to blast away back at the cops pursuing you. That's literally what you're arguing here, and there's not a single chance that's the law.

No it's not because he wasn't blasting away at the cops chasing him. If he turned around and pointed a gun at them that would change the analysis. Facts matter.


Not to Litigation Notes they don't.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:31 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So then you two are arguing that fleeing really is just a license to blast away back at the cops pursuing you. That's literally what you're arguing here, and there's not a single chance that's the law.

No it's not because he wasn't blasting away at the cops chasing him. If he turned around and pointed a gun at them that would change the analysis. Facts matter.
He turned and fired a taser at the cop pursuing him. And to save us another loop on this merry-go-round of suck: It's not reasonable to expect the officer to know that Brooks earlier fired the taser (if he did indeed fire it) earlier in the struggle.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:35 pm 
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JLN will never pass up on an opportunity to defend a white cop who kills a black man.

It's one of the certainties of the board.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So then you two are arguing that fleeing really is just a license to blast away back at the cops pursuing you. That's literally what you're arguing here, and there's not a single chance that's the law.

No it's not because he wasn't blasting away at the cops chasing him. If he turned around and pointed a gun at them that would change the analysis. Facts matter.
He turned and fired a taser at the cop pursuing him. And to save us another loop on this merry-go-round of suck: It's not reasonable to expect the officer to know that Brooks earlier fired the taser (if he did indeed fire it) earlier in the struggle.

He was turned at the cops firing a taser when he was shot? I thought he was running away and was shot in the back. You must know something no one else does.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:38 pm 
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Seems pretty unreasonable if their rules of engagement only allow an officer to fire at a fleeing suspect only when that suspect is turning to fire at them after already turning and firing at them previously ( along with the whole resisting , fighting, taking their weapon away in the first place thing ) .

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:39 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
JLN will never pass up on an opportunity to defend a white cop who kills a black man.

It's one of the certainties of the board.

You don’t think he would be defending the cop if he were black? The race is irrelevant here.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:42 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Seems pretty unreasonable if their rules of engagement only allow an officer to fire at a fleeing suspect only when that suspect is turning to fire at them after already turning and firing at them previously ( along with the whole resisting , fighting, taking their weapon away in the first place thing ) .

So it's okay for a cop to shoot someone in the back while running away from them because of what they *might* do?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 pm 
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Just kneel on their neck. Problem solved.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Seems pretty unreasonable if their rules of engagement only allow an officer to fire at a fleeing suspect only when that suspect is turning to fire at them after already turning and firing at them previously ( along with the whole resisting , fighting, taking their weapon away in the first place thing ) .

So it's okay for a cop to shoot someone in the back while running away from them because of what they *might* do?

He had already done it . I think there’s reasonable expectation to think he was going to do it again. ( aside from the whole resisting, physical struggle, getting a weapon that he already did).

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:50 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Franky T wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Seems pretty unreasonable if their rules of engagement only allow an officer to fire at a fleeing suspect only when that suspect is turning to fire at them after already turning and firing at them previously ( along with the whole resisting , fighting, taking their weapon away in the first place thing ) .

So it's okay for a cop to shoot someone in the back while running away from them because of what they *might* do?

He had already done it . I think there’s reasonable expectation to think he was going to do it again. ( aside from the whole resisting, physical struggle, getting a weapon that he already did).

So you do think it's okay. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:52 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Franky T wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
So then you two are arguing that fleeing really is just a license to blast away back at the cops pursuing you. That's literally what you're arguing here, and there's not a single chance that's the law.

No it's not because he wasn't blasting away at the cops chasing him. If he turned around and pointed a gun at them that would change the analysis. Facts matter.
He turned and fired a taser at the cop pursuing him. And to save us another loop on this merry-go-round of suck: It's not reasonable to expect the officer to know that Brooks earlier fired the taser (if he did indeed fire it) earlier in the struggle.

He was turned at the cops firing a taser when he was shot? I thought he was running away and was shot in the back. You must know something no one else does.


Image

Here is Brooks pointing the taser at the pursuing officer who has his gun drawn and pointed at Brooks. Brooks kept the taser pointed at the officer as he ran after firing the taser shot at the officer pursuing him.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:55 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
JLN will never pass up on an opportunity to defend a white cop who kills a black man.

It's one of the certainties of the board.

You don’t think he would be defending the cop if he were black? The race is irrelevant here.
Ogie knows I would, but why make a rational argument when you can just specifically note the different races of the people involved in a lazy attempt to imply racism?


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:59 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Franky T wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Seems pretty unreasonable if their rules of engagement only allow an officer to fire at a fleeing suspect only when that suspect is turning to fire at them after already turning and firing at them previously ( along with the whole resisting , fighting, taking their weapon away in the first place thing ) .

So it's okay for a cop to shoot someone in the back while running away from them because of what they *might* do?

He had already done it . I think there’s reasonable expectation to think he was going to do it again. ( aside from the whole resisting, physical struggle, getting a weapon that he already did).

So you do think it's okay. Thanks.


At that point, one of two things happen. They let him run free with the stolen taser (which they may or may not know is "live"), or they chase. If they chase, he is likely to try to use the taser again to avoid capture. That might involve shooting it at the cop again, taking a hostage, etc.

_________________
To IkeSouth, bigfan wrote:
Are you stoned or pissed off, or both, when you create these postings?


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