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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:20 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Can I believe that black lives matter without pledging support of Black Lives Matter?


Are you a Blue Lives or All Lives guy?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:24 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
We’re being hunted . Defund the police . Significant change must happen !! Police are the problem !!


Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019.

By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.


I agree with the implication of your post that the rhetoric of the day needs to change. However, I don't see how you can look at the methods used by police in just the last month and believe the way the operate doesn't need adjustment.
Are you not fine with officers using deadly force to stop a suspect who fired a taser at them from close range and continued to point the taser at a pursuing officer as he fled? What needs to change about that?


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:36 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
We’re being hunted . Defund the police . Significant change must happen !! Police are the problem !!


Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019.

By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.


I agree with the implication of your post that the rhetoric of the day needs to change. However, I don't see how you can look at the methods used by police in just the last month and believe the way the operate doesn't need adjustment.
Are you not fine with officers using deadly force to stop a suspect who fired a taser at them from close range and continued to point the taser at a pursuing officer as he fled? What needs to change about that?


where was the taser being aimed and from what distance in relation to the police officer when he pulled his gun out of his holster and raised it?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:48 am 
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I believe 18 feet was the distance. Please walk off 18 feet and tell me if you feel that is a safe distance from someone trying to shoot a taser at you.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:01 am 
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shakes wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
We’re being hunted . Defund the police . Significant change must happen !! Police are the problem !!


Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019.

By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.


I agree with the implication of your post that the rhetoric of the day needs to change. However, I don't see how you can look at the methods used by police in just the last month and believe the way the operate doesn't need adjustment.
Are you not fine with officers using deadly force to stop a suspect who fired a taser at them from close range and continued to point the taser at a pursuing officer as he fled? What needs to change about that?


where was the taser being aimed and from what distance in relation to the police officer when he pulled his gun out of his holster and raised it?


Image

The taser is clearly being pointed in the direction of the pursuing officer in this frame, and the officer has his weapon raised and aimed at Brooks in his right hand. Brooks fired the taser when he was about even (from the perspective of the camera) with the left-rear tire of the red car from a distance of 3-5 feet, and in the frame above I'd estimate that distance as 15-20 feet.

Here is the frame where Brooks fired the taser at the officer, you can see the officer's right hand on his weapon. As the video rolls from this frame, the officer veers left to avoid the shot and get some amount of cover behind the red vehicle, and while doing so he removes his weapon from its holster.

Image

For the entirety of the time between Brooks firing the taser shot at the officer pursuing him and the officer firing, Brooks kept the taser pointed in the direction of that officer.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:11 am 
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Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running away and flailing.

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Last edited by GoldenJet on Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:12 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running the away and flailing.
He fired the taser at the officer from the exact same body position (right arm holding taser extended backwards as running momentum is pointed forward) he was in when he was shot. This is clearly shown in the video stills. There's no need to try and lie.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:21 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running the away and flailing.
He fired the taser at the officer from the exact same body position (right arm holding taser extended backwards as running momentum is pointed forward) he was in when he was shot. This is clearly shown in the video stills. There's no need to try and lie.


I'm not lying about anything. I'm looking at the picture.

He was reaching backwards while running forward and he was drunk. That would be some masterful shooting to even come close.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:23 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running the away and flailing.
He fired the taser at the officer from the exact same body position (right arm holding taser extended backwards as running momentum is pointed forward) he was in when he was shot. This is clearly shown in the video stills. There's no need to try and lie.


I'm not lying about anything. I'm looking at the picture.

He was reaching backwards while running forward and he was drunk. That would be some masterful shooting to even come close.
...he came close enough with his first shot that the officer had to duck to avoid it. You're intentionally being dishonest about what happened, what is captured on video. That's called lying.

Also, it takes some real balls to say that someone shouldn't view a weapon as a threat because, while it is pointed at them, and has been fired at them already, the projectile fired MIGHT not hit them.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:25 am 
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I am not being dishonest about anything.

I find your semantic victory hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:26 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running the away and flailing.
He fired the taser at the officer from the exact same body position (right arm holding taser extended backwards as running momentum is pointed forward) he was in when he was shot. This is clearly shown in the video stills. There's no need to try and lie.


I'm not lying about anything. I'm looking at the picture.

He was reaching backwards while running forward and he was drunk. That would be some masterful shooting to even come close.


Obviously that's an impossible standard to ask of police. An officer needs to determine within seconds whether a guy is a good enough (or lucky enough) shot from 18 feet to be a legitimate threat?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:30 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Can I believe that black lives matter without pledging support of Black Lives Matter?


Are you a Blue Lives or All Lives guy?


no

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:52 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Can I believe that black lives matter without pledging support of Black Lives Matter?


Are you a Blue Lives or All Lives guy?


no


I was joking. I should understand it isn't always clear especially in this climate.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:55 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Can I believe that black lives matter without pledging support of Black Lives Matter?


Are you a Blue Lives or All Lives guy?


no


I was joking. I should understand it isn't always clear especially in this climate.


Is there a difference?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running the away and flailing.
He fired the taser at the officer from the exact same body position (right arm holding taser extended backwards as running momentum is pointed forward) he was in when he was shot. This is clearly shown in the video stills. There's no need to try and lie.


I'm not lying about anything. I'm looking at the picture.

He was reaching backwards while running forward and he was drunk. That would be some masterful shooting to even come close.


Obviously that's an impossible standard to ask of police. An officer needs to determine within seconds whether a guy is a good enough (or lucky enough) shot from 18 feet to be a legitimate threat?


no he doesn't. The shot was already fired (and I believe didn't even work) BEFORE the officer had his gun out of his holster. When the officer raised his gun and fired the drunk was 18 feet away and running in the opposite direction and not pointing a taser at anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:41 pm 
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Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.

The cops would have been safely out of Annie Oakley range and they could chuckle about where the guy could go and why it wouldn't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:43 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.

The cops would have been safely out of Annie Oakley range and they could chuckle about where the guy could go and why it wouldn't matter.

Easy way not to get shot and killed . Just let the cops put the handcuffs on you .

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:45 pm 
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We seem to be at a standoff. There were two choices in the decisions made on either side.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:47 pm 
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shakes wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running the away and flailing.
He fired the taser at the officer from the exact same body position (right arm holding taser extended backwards as running momentum is pointed forward) he was in when he was shot. This is clearly shown in the video stills. There's no need to try and lie.


I'm not lying about anything. I'm looking at the picture.

He was reaching backwards while running forward and he was drunk. That would be some masterful shooting to even come close.


Obviously that's an impossible standard to ask of police. An officer needs to determine within seconds whether a guy is a good enough (or lucky enough) shot from 18 feet to be a legitimate threat?


no he doesn't. The shot was already fired (and I believe didn't even work) BEFORE the officer had his gun out of his holster. When the officer raised his gun and fired the drunk was 18 feet away and running in the opposite direction and not pointing a taser at anyone.



Image

Pointing the taser at the officer right before that officer returns fire.


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:48 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.


How does that then play out? The guy finds his way home, sleeps it off, and turns himself in the next day at the station with the taser?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:50 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.


How does that then play out? The guy finds his way home, sleeps it off, and turns himself in the next day at the station with the taser?


You have a problem with a drunk guy walking home with a deadly weapon?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:51 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.

The cops would have been safely out of Annie Oakley range and they could chuckle about where the guy could go and why it wouldn't matter.

Easy way not to get shot and killed . Just let the cops put the handcuffs on you .


This right here sums up the problem we have with police procedure in this country. There are way too many people who believe that once you do something bad during a stop all bets are off and the police are allowed to shoot you.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:52 pm 
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shakes wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.

The cops would have been safely out of Annie Oakley range and they could chuckle about where the guy could go and why it wouldn't matter.

Easy way not to get shot and killed . Just let the cops put the handcuffs on you .


This right here sums up the problem we have with police procedure in this country. There are way too many people who believe that once you do something bad during a stop all bets are off and the police are allowed to shoot you.
The police are allowed to shoot you when you assault them with a sidearm, then continue to point that sidearm at them as you flee.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:53 pm 
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shakes wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.

The cops would have been safely out of Annie Oakley range and they could chuckle about where the guy could go and why it wouldn't matter.

Easy way not to get shot and killed . Just let the cops put the handcuffs on you .


This right here sums up the problem we have with police procedure in this country. There are way too many people who believe that once you do something bad during a stop all bets are off and the police are allowed to shoot you.

Youre right shakes. All the jovial Mr Brooks did was break away from police and start running and they shot him for it.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.


How does that then play out? The guy finds his way home, sleeps it off, and turns himself in the next day at the station with the taser?


You have a problem with a drunk guy walking home with a deadly weapon?


They've got all his vitals, they could simply follow him at a safe distance.

There are already huge racial tensions.

Let cooler heads prevail.

If you can't handle that, then don't be a cop.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
shakes wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Holy fucking Buffalo Bill trick shot artist.

He's clearly running the away and flailing.
He fired the taser at the officer from the exact same body position (right arm holding taser extended backwards as running momentum is pointed forward) he was in when he was shot. This is clearly shown in the video stills. There's no need to try and lie.


I'm not lying about anything. I'm looking at the picture.

He was reaching backwards while running forward and he was drunk. That would be some masterful shooting to even come close.


Obviously that's an impossible standard to ask of police. An officer needs to determine within seconds whether a guy is a good enough (or lucky enough) shot from 18 feet to be a legitimate threat?


no he doesn't. The shot was already fired (and I believe didn't even work) BEFORE the officer had his gun out of his holster. When the officer raised his gun and fired the drunk was 18 feet away and running in the opposite direction and not pointing a taser at anyone.



Image

Pointing the taser at the officer right before that officer returns fire.


post the video. Screenshot doesn't prove anything without context of the video. I look at that screenshot and see several different ways it can be interpreted.



Either way, it doesn't change the fact that it's a drunk guy running away with a taser that has already been discharged. Not withstanding the other issue about whether or not a taser is considered a deadly weapon. Legally it isn't.

which brings us rigth back to the required standard that needs to be met for an officer to shoot a fleeing suspect. Both prongs of that test come back in favor of the fleeing drunk.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:56 pm 
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It's incredible how little disregard for human life so many on here seem to have.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:56 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
shakes wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.

The cops would have been safely out of Annie Oakley range and they could chuckle about where the guy could go and why it wouldn't matter.

Easy way not to get shot and killed . Just let the cops put the handcuffs on you .


This right here sums up the problem we have with police procedure in this country. There are way too many people who believe that once you do something bad during a stop all bets are off and the police are allowed to shoot you.

Youre right shakes. All the jovial Mr Brooks did was break away from police and start running and they shot him for it.



When the officer pulled his gun out of his holster and pointed it at the drunk, what was the drunk doing and where was he in relation to the officer?

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:57 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Easiest way to de-escalate...not immediately chase the drunk.


How does that then play out?
With the suspect still alive.

Jaw Breaker wrote:
The guy finds his way home, sleeps it off, and turns himself in the next day at the station with the taser?
They knew who he was and probably where he lived pretty much from the start. I'm guessing their crack investigative skills would have resulted in his recapture.

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Last edited by Zippy-The-Pinhead on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I Can't Breathe II
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:58 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
It's incredible how little disregard for some human life so many on here seem to have.
Fixed.

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