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Nas
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:23 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I may not be after you hear one of my diatribes regarding the utter uselessness of the Libertarianism movement. :lol: :lol:

Nah I'm fine with that. Most people think Libertarians are some combination of useless or crazy. Got no issues with that as long as you're holding your party's nominee to similar scrutiny and sounds like you do.


No one else here who generally votes Democrat has criticized them more than me. This election is about removing a dangerous and hate-filled man. That instantly makes the country better.

If that's all this election is about then I think it's a poor strategy on your part to encourage people to vote for Trump if they would instead prefer to vote third party.


I would prefer if everyone voted against him.

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TurdFerguson
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:24 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I may not be after you hear one of my diatribes regarding the utter uselessness of the Libertarianism movement. :lol: :lol:

Nah I'm fine with that. Most people think Libertarians are some combination of useless or crazy. Got no issues with that as long as you're holding your party's nominee to similar scrutiny and sounds like you do.


No one else here who generally votes Democrat has criticized them more than me. This election is about removing a dangerous and hate-filled man. That instantly makes the country better.


Biden will be the first Democrat I have ever voted. Bush, McCain, Romney, Johnson.
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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I may not be after you hear one of my diatribes regarding the utter uselessness of the Libertarianism movement. :lol: :lol:

Nah I'm fine with that. Most people think Libertarians are some combination of useless or crazy. Got no issues with that as long as you're holding your party's nominee to similar scrutiny and sounds like you do.


No one else here who generally votes Democrat has criticized them more than me. This election is about removing a dangerous and hate-filled man. That instantly makes the country better.

If that's all this election is about then I think it's a poor strategy on your part to encourage people to vote for Trump if they would instead prefer to vote third party.


I would prefer if everyone voted against him.

A vote for Jorgenson is a vote against him. It's a vote against Biden too.

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Curious Hair
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:29 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
He's wrong. It's one of those really fucking stupid things people try to say to sound "smart", when 10 seconds of critical thought exposes it as the bullshit it clearly is.

The assumption is that the natural state of all votes is Democratic, and that a third-party vote is a corruption of that state. Under this line of thinking, Democrats never have to do anything to positively earn a vote; the burden is on the voters not to fail the party.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:31 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I may not be after you hear one of my diatribes regarding the utter uselessness of the Libertarianism movement. :lol: :lol:

Nah I'm fine with that. Most people think Libertarians are some combination of useless or crazy. Got no issues with that as long as you're holding your party's nominee to similar scrutiny and sounds like you do.


No one else here who generally votes Democrat has criticized them more than me. This election is about removing a dangerous and hate-filled man. That instantly makes the country better.

If that's all this election is about then I think it's a poor strategy on your part to encourage people to vote for Trump if they would instead prefer to vote third party.


I would prefer if everyone voted against him.

A vote for Jorgenson is a vote against him. It's a vote against Biden too.


I have no issue with your vote.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:34 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
nickname is one of the more fitting nicknames I've heard on this board, ever.


It only makes sense to someone who pretty much ignores politics or wanted Bernie to win

It makes sense to anyone who is even mildly conscious of both candidates past.


Again, anyone mildly paying attention to their personal or political history would know that they aren't close to being the same person. It's lazy groupthink and wrong.


They are a lot closer than you might care to think. Even down to the "delusions of grandeur" thing that both have going on.


I know you aren't a Biden guy, but Hillary is far closer to Trump than Biden is


She is nowhere near as disingenuous as either of those two.

She also runs laps around either of them in terms of competency level.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:34 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He's wrong. It's one of those really fucking stupid things people try to say to sound "smart", when 10 seconds of critical thought exposes it as the bullshit it clearly is.

The assumption is that the natural state of all votes is Democratic, and that a third-party vote is a corruption of that state. Under this line of thinking, Democrats never have to do anything to positively earn a vote; the burden is on the voters not to fail the party.

Yup

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:42 pm 
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long time guy wrote:

She is nowhere near as disingenuous as either of those two.

She also runs laps around either of them in terms of competency level.


We've never seen the real Hillary. She's tried to be whoever she thought she needed to be to get elected. I hear privately she's great.

No question she's far smarter than both smart people don't make the best leaders

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:47 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:

She is nowhere near as disingenuous as either of those two.

She also runs laps around either of them in terms of competency level.


We've never seen the real Hillary. She's tried to be whoever she thought she needed to be to get elected. I hear privately she's great.

No question she's far smarter than both smart people don't make the best leaders


I think we actually have. She was far less of a media creation than either Biden, Obama, or Trump ever were.

That was her biggest problem. In a number of instances she was much more candid than she should have been.

She took tough positions on things and paid a political price for it in the end. Rarely was there a problem with knowing where she stood on an actual issue and the only time that I can recall her pretending to be something that she wasn't was when she pandered for the Sanders vote.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:54 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:

She is nowhere near as disingenuous as either of those two.

She also runs laps around either of them in terms of competency level.


We've never seen the real Hillary. She's tried to be whoever she thought she needed to be to get elected. I hear privately she's great.

No question she's far smarter than both smart people don't make the best leaders


I think we actually have. She was far less of a media creation than either Biden, Obama, or Trump ever were.

That was her biggest problem. In a number of instances she was much more candid than she should have been.

She took tough positions on things and paid a political price for it in the end. Rarely was there a problem with knowing where she stood on an actual issue and the only time that I can recall her pretending to be something that she wasn't was when she pandered for the Sanders vote.


My opinion of the Clintons is very poor. I think she's very smart, but I believe that she's a political opportunist with very poor political skills. I don't know what her core beliefs are. Federalist Society Warren reminds me of her except she is more charismatic and has a little political skill.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:01 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:

She is nowhere near as disingenuous as either of those two.

She also runs laps around either of them in terms of competency level.


We've never seen the real Hillary. She's tried to be whoever she thought she needed to be to get elected. I hear privately she's great.

No question she's far smarter than both smart people don't make the best leaders


I think we actually have. She was far less of a media creation than either Biden, Obama, or Trump ever were.

That was her biggest problem. In a number of instances she was much more candid than she should have been.

She took tough positions on things and paid a political price for it in the end. Rarely was there a problem with knowing where she stood on an actual issue and the only time that I can recall her pretending to be something that she wasn't was when she pandered for the Sanders vote.


My opinion of the Clintons is very poor. I think she's very smart, but I believe that she's a political opportunist with very poor political skills. I don't know what her core beliefs are. Federalist Society Warren reminds me of her except she is more charismatic and has a little political skill.


There isn't a doubt in my mind as to whether Hillary Clinton would have handled this particular situation differently than Trump has.

As far core beliefs goes Biden attempts to present himself as "hardscrabble Joe" advocate of everyone's everyman but his record is anything but. He has been quite comfortable being a pawn of the financial industry for years.

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Seacrest
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He's wrong. It's one of those really fucking stupid things people try to say to sound "smart", when 10 seconds of critical thought exposes it as the bullshit it clearly is.

The assumption is that the natural state of all votes is Democratic, and that a third-party vote is a corruption of that state. Under this line of thinking, Democrats never have to do anything to positively earn a vote; the burden is on the voters not to fail the party.


Very succinctly and accurately stated.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He's wrong. It's one of those really fucking stupid things people try to say to sound "smart", when 10 seconds of critical thought exposes it as the bullshit it clearly is.

The assumption is that the natural state of all votes is Democratic, and that a third-party vote is a corruption of that state. Under this line of thinking, Democrats never have to do anything to positively earn a vote; the burden is on the voters not to fail the party.


Very succinctly and accurately stated.


Not really. Just more Dem bashing. They passed have passed legislation which satisfied (i.e. Affordable Health Care Act, Same Sex Marriage) their constituency.

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denisdman
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:19 pm 
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I think the only federal law actually made it illegal, Doma 1996 under Clinton. I believe it was the states, then the Supreme Court that made it legal everywhere.

Maybe I have it wrong...

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Seacrest
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:23 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I think the only federal law actually made it illegal, Doma 1996 under Clinton. I believe it was the states, then the Supreme Court that made it legal everywhere.

Maybe I have it wrong...


Forget it he rollin...

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Curious Hair
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:26 pm 
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No, I think it's bullshit that Ralph Nader gets blamed for everything because of what happened in 2000. Gore didn't earn those votes! Maybe without Nader, they don't show up to vote at all.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:32 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:

She is nowhere near as disingenuous as either of those two.

She also runs laps around either of them in terms of competency level.


We've never seen the real Hillary. She's tried to be whoever she thought she needed to be to get elected. I hear privately she's great.

No question she's far smarter than both smart people don't make the best leaders


I think we actually have. She was far less of a media creation than either Biden, Obama, or Trump ever were.

That was her biggest problem. In a number of instances she was much more candid than she should have been.

She took tough positions on things and paid a political price for it in the end. Rarely was there a problem with knowing where she stood on an actual issue and the only time that I can recall her pretending to be something that she wasn't was when she pandered for the Sanders vote.


My opinion of the Clintons is very poor. I think she's very smart, but I believe that she's a political opportunist with very poor political skills. I don't know what her core beliefs are. Federalist Society Warren reminds me of her except she is more charismatic and has a little political skill.


There isn't a doubt in my mind as to whether Hillary Clinton would have handled this particular situation differently than Trump has.

As far core beliefs goes Biden attempts to present himself as "hardscrabble Joe" advocate of everyone's everyman but his record is anything but. He has been quite comfortable being a pawn of the financial industry for years.


I'm confident that she would have been better too.

Biden gets away with it because he's likable. Everyone likes him who knows him. That's tough to pull off. Biden earned his BBB label but those were his constituents. How long do you last voting against the interests of your constituents? Not long.

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Last edited by Nas on Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zippy-The-Pinhead
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:33 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:

She is nowhere near as disingenuous as either of those two.

She also runs laps around either of them in terms of competency level.


We've never seen the real Hillary. She's tried to be whoever she thought she needed to be to get elected. I hear privately she's great.

No question she's far smarter than both smart people don't make the best leaders


I think we actually have. She was far less of a media creation than either Biden, Obama, or Trump ever were.

That was her biggest problem. In a number of instances she was much more candid than she should have been.

She took tough positions on things and paid a political price for it in the end. Rarely was there a problem with knowing where she stood on an actual issue and the only time that I can recall her pretending to be something that she wasn't was when she pandered for the Sanders vote.
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denisdman
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:42 pm 
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I think stuff just builds when you’re around politics too long. Is it any wonder that the last few President spent very little time in Washington before being elected? I mean the last two had very thin records or none at all in Trump’s case. I think Bush 1 was the last guy that was in the swamp, and he just rode Reagan’s coat tails and a weak opponent to victory,

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RFDC
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:09 pm 
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312player wrote:
I've been waiting for a labor party my whole life. A party that represents 90% of Americans.

You really think there is going to be a party that represents 90% of people?

No way.

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denisdman
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:12 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
312player wrote:
I've been waiting for a labor party my whole life. A party that represents 90% of Americans.

You really think there is going to be a party that represents 90% of people?

No way.


The UK’s Labour Party polls between 25-35%. The Tories are hated, but they are still able to garner majorities for long stretches.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:10 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I may not be after you hear one of my diatribes regarding the utter uselessness of the Libertarianism movement. :lol: :lol:

Nah I'm fine with that. Most people think Libertarians are some combination of useless or crazy. Got no issues with that as long as you're holding your party's nominee to similar scrutiny and sounds like you do.


No one else here who generally votes Democrat has criticized them more than me. This election is about removing a dangerous and hate-filled man. That instantly makes the country better.

If that's all this election is about then I think it's a poor strategy on your part to encourage people to vote for Trump if they would instead prefer to vote third party.


I would prefer if everyone voted against him.

A vote for Jorgenson is a vote against him. It's a vote against Biden too.

Do you truly believe a Biden Presidency would be as bad as 4 more years of Trump who you hate?

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:11 pm 
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I don’t think it would be much different. Hence the Diet Trump part.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:15 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I don’t think it would be much different. Hence the Diet Trump part.

Why? For instance do you believe they'll nominate similar Supreme Court justices? Will Biden try and repeal Obamacare? Is Biden going to try and build a wall?

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:20 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I don’t think it would be much different. Hence the Diet Trump part.

Why? For instance do you believe they'll nominate similar Supreme Court justices? Will Biden try and repeal Obamacare? Is Biden going to try and build a wall?

Did Trump try to build a wall?

They’ll be superficial differences like always. But not much will change and we’ll have an embarrassing clown of a president either way.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:23 pm 
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Will Biden do all he can to appeal to white supremacist and attack the American people?

Will he pass trillions in tax cut to the rich?

Will he tweet like a 12 year old daily?

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Will Biden do all he can to appeal to white supremacist and attack the American people?

Will he pass trillions in tax cut to the rich?

Yes and yes, if we’re going by his past actions.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:28 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Will Biden do all he can to appeal to white supremacist and attack the American people?

Will he pass trillions in tax cut to the rich?

Yes and yes, if we’re going by his past actions.


Good talk

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:29 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I don’t think it would be much different. Hence the Diet Trump part.

Why? For instance do you believe they'll nominate similar Supreme Court justices? Will Biden try and repeal Obamacare? Is Biden going to try and build a wall?

Did Trump try to build a wall?

They’ll be superficial differences like always. But not much will change and we’ll have an embarrassing clown of a president either way.

He did try and build a wall.

You dislike Trump more than me though so I guess it's about perspective.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: June teenth
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:30 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I don’t think it would be much different. Hence the Diet Trump part.

Why? For instance do you believe they'll nominate similar Supreme Court justices? Will Biden try and repeal Obamacare? Is Biden going to try and build a wall?

Did Trump try to build a wall?

They’ll be superficial differences like always. But not much will change and we’ll have an embarrassing clown of a president either way.

He did try and build a wall.

You dislike Trump more than me though so I guess it's about perspective.

Yeah you like Trump and Biden overall. I get it.

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