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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:06 pm 
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We are entering a shift in culture. It doesn't make sense for workers to waste time on a commute if they don't have to. Remote work makes cities less important. And it's going to be a painful transition for many.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:23 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
We are entering a shift in culture. It doesn't make sense for workers to waste time on a commute if they don't have to. Remote work makes cities less important. And it's going to be a painful transition for many.

Remote works sucks. Cities will be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
I used to work for one of the boat ride companies when I was younger. I've stayed in touch with a lot of those guys and they say the last couple years they've noticed a significant dropoff. Now they think its armageddon, and it has nothing to do with the corona.

Chicago reputation has gone international. The Laquan MacDonald situation then the Jussie Smollet fiasco and now its ground zero for this BLM looting bullshit. That's on top of the gun violence which is genuinely developing world.

I dont know if any city in the world has seen its reputation and status plunge as much as Chicago has these last fifteen years.


I never lived in the city. But I did attend UIC in mid-90’s. And I recall what the city looked like back then, like driving to the UC along Madison or much of the South Loop. I think the redevelopment from the Loop outward has been impressive. The River Walk is really nice. The area where Cabrini used to be. Etc. There has been progress from my suburban point of view.

But from a purely reputation point of view, Illinois and Chicago have taken lots of hits. The biggest issue for me is the trajectory. The population bleed caused in part due to fiscal issues (taxes) along with the already impossible to fix weather makes the future look bleak.

While I largely agree, Chicago in the middle 90s coming off a really big drug war and murder epidemic, was much nicer than the 80s, which in turn was undeniably nicer than the 70s, where the Loop was a group of crumbling old buildings where no one would willingly be after 5pm or on weekends.

And most of the neighborhoods, white and black needed major rehab.


Yup understood. My parents and grandparent told me all about it. But I didn’t have any personal experience of it. There was an honest fear of coming downtown in my childhood. But what I have seen change since my time at UIC is impressive. Long term I worry about a reversal due mainly to poor fiscal management and population drain.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:27 pm 
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Navy Pier was a good way to kill a couple hours with kids. They have some fun events. Tall ships was ok. Their Christmas thing was good for the little ones and children's museum (that will be no more). I've always wanted to go to Lobster Fest.


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:39 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
We are entering a shift in culture. It doesn't make sense for workers to waste time on a commute if they don't have to. Remote work makes cities less important. And it's going to be a painful transition for many.

Remote works sucks. Cities will be fine.


I know of several businesses looking to either sell their offices or downsize. With remote work you can run three shifts in a day, and be far more efficient. How many businesses are going to shutdown with workers on remote? Lunch spots, coffee places, dry cleaners, office space, etc. A ton of traditional businesses are about to go under or become Amazon affliliates.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:42 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
We are entering a shift in culture. It doesn't make sense for workers to waste time on a commute if they don't have to. Remote work makes cities less important. And it's going to be a painful transition for many.

Remote works sucks. Cities will be fine.


I know of several businesses looking to either sell their offices or downsize. With remote work you can run three shifts in a day, and be far more efficient. How many businesses are going to shutdown with workers on remote? Lunch spots, coffee places, dry cleaners, office space, etc. A ton of traditional businesses are about to go under or become Amazon affliliates.

Right, so bizarre you're happy with that. Sticking it to those big city libs!


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:47 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Right, so bizarre you're happy with that. Sticking it to those big city libs!


Who said I was happy with it? I don't want to see Chicago suffer, but we can either be honest or lie about the facts.

I've been considered a big city liberal my entire life. That's when freedom of speech was something we defended, and we fought the repressive religious Right, not emulate them. Ignoring the facts is how we got to here.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Navy Pier was a good way to kill a couple hours with kids. They have some fun events. Tall ships was ok. Their Christmas thing was good for the little ones and children's museum (that will be no more). I've always wanted to go to Lobster Fest.


Shakespeare Theater is a fantastic venue and a great production company.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:34 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Right, so bizarre you're happy with that. Sticking it to those big city libs!


Who said I was happy with it? I don't want to see Chicago suffer, but we can either be honest or lie about the facts.

I've been considered a big city liberal my entire life. That's when freedom of speech was something we defended, and we fought the repressive religious Right, not emulate them. Ignoring the facts is how we got to here.

Not ignoring the facts. I'm ignoring the short-term doomsdaying of large cities many journalists and arm-chair analysts are trumpeting. There will be a lot pain in the next 3-5 years in city centers but there was going to be pain even without COVID. E-commerce is crushing retail. Southport is an interesting example of the vicious impact of e-commerce. Independent shops close and then e-commerce retailers open physical locations in the vacancies (Amazon, Warby Parker, Bonobos). Remote work will increase in prevalence and acceptance but there is no substitute for showing up to the office. MANY have begun to realize showing up to work is underappreciated. As always, balance is key and it seems senior leaders are recognizing flexibility isn't the devil.

There's also an odd disconnect in dancing on the grave of commercial business districts but little consideration for suburban office parks and malls. Those suckers were suffering pre-COVID and killing city governments with their vacancies.

There are no winners in this.


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:40 pm 
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I don't care what large size city it is, I don't want to live in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:41 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
I've always wanted to go to Lobster Fest.


Red Lobster is still open


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:44 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Why does it need to stay open? Who the fuck is going to come here?

People who aren't afraid of their shadow.


that's racist!

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:53 pm 
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Bagels wrote:

Red Lobster is still open


It's affectionately called "The Lob" in our house. I like when they give us a free glass with a special drink.


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:10 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Kirkwood and Good Dolphin will hilariously defend Chicago no matter what.


Like MC Hammer, I've been around the world. I've lived in a global city like Rome. I've seen and like what the world has to offer but I choose to reside here.

It's not like I'm approaching it from some unsophisticated perspective.



This reminds me of my ex-girlfriend who came from a Lutheran family but told me that she had studied all the world religions and came to the conclusion that Lutheranism was the best/correct one.


would it be a more valid perspective if I lived in an exurb and vacationed at Sandals resorts?


Easy there, Seabiscuit. I was just busting your balls. I'm a Chicagoan who feels much the same way you do, but it would be pretty silly to call us objective. This is where we're from. We like it. That's it.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:12 pm 
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How much longer you think you will like it? If either one of you flips that's how we will know Chicago is doomed.


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:54 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
How much longer you think you will like it? If either one of you flips that's how we will know Chicago is doomed.



The thing that will cause me to leave Chicago- besides the weather- isn't going to be increased crime. My neighborhood has always had relatively high crime rates. Rogers Park refuses to gentrify. Probably because there are so many courtyard buildings mixed in with the Victorians and bungalows. The thing that is going to make me walk away is that I'm not going to have higher and higher taxes forced down my throat while my neighbors who worked government jobs retire to Arizona and Nashville at age 55 and collect $100,000 a year with Cadillac healthcare. What do I look like- lump-lump?

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:58 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Kirkwood and Good Dolphin will hilariously defend Chicago no matter what.


Like MC Hammer, I've been around the world. I've lived in a global city like Rome. I've seen and like what the world has to offer but I choose to reside here.

It's not like I'm approaching it from some unsophisticated perspective.



This reminds me of my ex-girlfriend who came from a Lutheran family but told me that she had studied all the world religions and came to the conclusion that Lutheranism was the best/correct one.


would it be a more valid perspective if I lived in an exurb and vacationed at Sandals resorts?


Easy there, Seabiscuit. I was just busting your balls. I'm a Chicagoan who feels much the same way you do, but it would be pretty silly to call us objective. This is where we're from. We like it. That's it.

You’re close. Now extend that point of view globally and tell me how anybody can accurately assess another place. Especially when comparing places within the same country and even states within that country.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:01 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
How much longer you think you will like it? If either one of you flips that's how we will know Chicago is doomed.



The thing that will cause me to leave Chicago- besides the weather- isn't going to be increased crime. My neighborhood has always had relatively high crime rates. Rogers Park refuses to gentrify. Probably because there are so many courtyard buildings mixed in with the Victorians and bungalows. The thing that is going to make me walk away is that I'm not going to have higher and higher taxes forced down my throat while my neighbors who worked government jobs retire to Arizona and Nashville at age 55 and collect $100,000 a year with Cadillac healthcare. What do I look like- lump-lump?

There’s nothing that will cause you to walk away. Except your extraordinary stubbornness upon reading my last sentence and deciding that will cause you to move away :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:04 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
How much longer you think you will like it? If either one of you flips that's how we will know Chicago is doomed.



The thing that will cause me to leave Chicago- besides the weather- isn't going to be increased crime. My neighborhood has always had relatively high crime rates. Rogers Park refuses to gentrify. Probably because there are so many courtyard buildings mixed in with the Victorians and bungalows. The thing that is going to make me walk away is that I'm not going to have higher and higher taxes forced down my throat while my neighbors who worked government jobs retire to Arizona and Nashville at age 55 and collect $100,000 a year with Cadillac healthcare. What do I look like- lump-lump?

There’s nothing that will cause you to walk away. Except your extraordinary stubbornness upon reading my last sentence and deciding that will cause you to move away :lol:


:lol: Could be. I can't really see myself going through a Chicago winter ten years from now. But who knows if I even make it that long. And then there's that climate change thing. Maybe I'll own beachfront property by then.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:09 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
How much longer you think you will like it? If either one of you flips that's how we will know Chicago is doomed.



The thing that will cause me to leave Chicago- besides the weather- isn't going to be increased crime. My neighborhood has always had relatively high crime rates. Rogers Park refuses to gentrify. Probably because there are so many courtyard buildings mixed in with the Victorians and bungalows. The thing that is going to make me walk away is that I'm not going to have higher and higher taxes forced down my throat while my neighbors who worked government jobs retire to Arizona and Nashville at age 55 and collect $100,000 a year with Cadillac healthcare. What do I look like- lump-lump?

There’s nothing that will cause you to walk away. Except your extraordinary stubbornness upon reading my last sentence and deciding that will cause you to move away :lol:


:lol: Could be. I can't really see myself going through a Chicago winter ten years from now.

Could be. I think I know you decently but of course I’m not gonna say I know you well. You strike me as the type of guy that said that 10 years ago(especially considering your stories around 08 I think it was) and will say it again 10 years from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
How much longer you think you will like it? If either one of you flips that's how we will know Chicago is doomed.



The thing that will cause me to leave Chicago- besides the weather- isn't going to be increased crime. My neighborhood has always had relatively high crime rates. Rogers Park refuses to gentrify. Probably because there are so many courtyard buildings mixed in with the Victorians and bungalows. The thing that is going to make me walk away is that I'm not going to have higher and higher taxes forced down my throat while my neighbors who worked government jobs retire to Arizona and Nashville at age 55 and collect $100,000 a year with Cadillac healthcare. What do I look like- lump-lump?

There’s nothing that will cause you to walk away. Except your extraordinary stubbornness upon reading my last sentence and deciding that will cause you to move away :lol:


:lol: Could be. I can't really see myself going through a Chicago winter ten years from now.

Could be. I think I know you decently but of course I’m not gonna say I know you well. You strike me as the type of guy that said that 10 years ago(especially considering your stories around 08 I think it was) and will say it again 10 years from now.



You may be right. It's a lot easier to do nothing than it is to change. And I am nothing if not a creature of habit. Here's a funny story. I sit in the second seat of the third row in the Gold Room every Saturday at Arlington. My buddy sits in the third seat. On a typical Saturday- pre-COVID anyway- there were probably 40-50 guys up there. One day we were talking and we agreed that even if we were the only two guys in the whole place we would still sit in those same two seats.

My wife really likes change though. So I can see her wanted to move and I probably won't object as long as it's some place like Ft. Lauderdale or Lexington, KY. or Pinehurst, NC.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:19 pm 
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Has anyone considered the McNeil route? If you don't live in the city then what is the difference between a Chicago Illinois suburb and a Chicago Indiana suburb (besides the lower taxes) like, say, Munster.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:38 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

You may be right. It's a lot easier to do nothing than it is to change. And I am nothing if not a creature of habit. Here's a funny story. I sit in the second seat of the third row in the Gold Room every Saturday at Arlington. My buddy sits in the third seat. On a typical Saturday- pre-COVID anyway- there were probably 40-50 guys up there. One day we were talking and we agreed that even if we were the only two guys in the whole place we would still sit in those same two seats.

My wife really likes change though. So I can see her wanted to move and I probably won't object as long as it's some place like Ft. Lauderdale or Lexington, KY. or Pinehurst, NC.


I want to pay somebody to take those seats some Saturday.


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:40 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

You may be right. It's a lot easier to do nothing than it is to change. And I am nothing if not a creature of habit. Here's a funny story. I sit in the second seat of the third row in the Gold Room every Saturday at Arlington. My buddy sits in the third seat. On a typical Saturday- pre-COVID anyway- there were probably 40-50 guys up there. One day we were talking and we agreed that even if we were the only two guys in the whole place we would still sit in those same two seats.

My wife really likes change though. So I can see her wanted to move and I probably won't object as long as it's some place like Ft. Lauderdale or Lexington, KY. or Pinehurst, NC.


I want to pay somebody to take those seats some Saturday.



I don't like your chances. I do have a little clout up there.

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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:46 pm 
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I paid those bike guys to make you stand outside.


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:11 am 
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https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/n ... t/2324254/

Shut it down


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:06 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:09 am 
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Good spot for a tent city


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 Post subject: Re: Navy Pier
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Good spot for a tent city



Until winter comes.

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