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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:22 am 
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Cooper is is pretty shocking. And great to see.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:25 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Cooper is is pretty shocking. And great to see.



That seems like the harbinger of hiring a real manager. Clearing the way for him to bring in his own guy. Boston has to go too. No more Kenny spies.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:29 am 
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Hahn said the rest of the staff is still employed for now and their future will be entirely up to the new manager.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:32 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
If Rick was a black guy Woke Twitter would be all over this lol

Is this really necessary?


Yeah, cause it happened with Dwayne Haskins the other day, so yes, I will keep bringing it up. Boo ya!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:33 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Ricky was able to coast for a good long time with no expectations. When he finally had his chance to show what he could do, he was terrible. There was a direct correlation between his decisions and losses in the past 20 or so games, all of which were big games. There were some real headscratchers with horrible results but then he would do the exact same thing again causing another loss.

No tears for Raw Deal Ricky this time around. He made his money and he got his shot.


He has a nice niche for himself as a well paid babysitter for rebuilding teams.


He's proven that he will not do anything to embarass an organization during a rebuild

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:34 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:35 am 
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Hinch, Cora, or Alomar are all good choices

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:35 am 
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Can we tamper to get Joe Maddon too?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:41 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Cooper is is pretty shocking. And great to see.



That seems like the harbinger of hiring a real manager. Clearing the way for him to bring in his own guy. Boston has to go too. No more Kenny spies.


He's been around forever too. Certainly more Kenny's buddy than a coach.

Steve Stone said something interesting during the Sox Talk Podcast. Teams need two managers these days. One to be the communicator and handle the media, and another to know that analytics and make the right calls on in game strategy. I assumed at the time it meant Ricky staying on, but with a new bench coach.

There were too many guys on the payroll taking shots at Ricky for him to continue.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:46 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
What kind of organization would do this to Ricky? Horrible!!


The Sox didn't give him a raw deal. They let him manage the fully realized club and they didn't get the job done. (I don't blame Renteria for that. But they can't fire Jose Abreu for grounding into double plays.) That's unlike the Cubs who made him manage a shit team and dumped him as soon as they got good. The Sox were no worse than the second best team in the AL this year. They may have been the best. They should have beaten Oakland.


The better way to look at it as having an unproven talent while getting the chance to acquire a more qualified person. Sure, the unproven guy seems to be getting a raw deal, but the team is locking down a known commodity. And it worked....

Easy move here by Hahn.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:46 am 
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Hahn has been Midas. Whoever is fine by me.

And thanks to Coop for his many years of fine coaching. But with spin rates and ultra fine video tuning and data breakdown, it's just time for new blood.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
What kind of organization would do this to Ricky? Horrible!!


The Sox didn't give him a raw deal. They let him manage the fully realized club and they didn't get the job done. (I don't blame Renteria for that. But they can't fire Jose Abreu for grounding into double plays.) That's unlike the Cubs who made him manage a shit team and dumped him as soon as they got good. The Sox were no worse than the second best team in the AL this year. They may have been the best. They should have beaten Oakland.


Realizing Renteria was not the answer and cutting him when they did was one of the best moves Theo made. What he did with the White Sox proved this.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:06 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
What kind of organization would do this to Ricky? Horrible!!


The Sox didn't give him a raw deal. They let him manage the fully realized club and they didn't get the job done. (I don't blame Renteria for that. But they can't fire Jose Abreu for grounding into double plays.) That's unlike the Cubs who made him manage a shit team and dumped him as soon as they got good. The Sox were no worse than the second best team in the AL this year. They may have been the best. They should have beaten Oakland.


Realizing Renteria was not the answer and cutting him when they did was one of the best moves Theo made. What he did with the White Sox proved this.



I disagree with that. I think the Cubs would have won with Renteria and the Sox would win with him too. But someone has to pay for failure. And it's the manager. With the Cubs Renteria never had a team fail. They were just bad. This year's Sox failed.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:09 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
What kind of organization would do this to Ricky? Horrible!!


The Sox didn't give him a raw deal. They let him manage the fully realized club and they didn't get the job done. (I don't blame Renteria for that. But they can't fire Jose Abreu for grounding into double plays.) That's unlike the Cubs who made him manage a shit team and dumped him as soon as they got good. The Sox were no worse than the second best team in the AL this year. They may have been the best. They should have beaten Oakland.


Realizing Renteria was not the answer and cutting him when they did was one of the best moves Theo made. What he did with the White Sox proved this.

The Cubs did not just simply cut him. They hired another manager behind Ricky's back while he was still employed with the team. Completely different situation with the White Sox. That doesn't stop the Cubbie fans from showing their inferiority complex even though we hear time and time again that it doesn't exist.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:24 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
What kind of organization would do this to Ricky? Horrible!!


The Sox didn't give him a raw deal. They let him manage the fully realized club and they didn't get the job done. (I don't blame Renteria for that. But they can't fire Jose Abreu for grounding into double plays.) That's unlike the Cubs who made him manage a shit team and dumped him as soon as they got good. The Sox were no worse than the second best team in the AL this year. They may have been the best. They should have beaten Oakland.


Realizing Renteria was not the answer and cutting him when they did was one of the best moves Theo made. What he did with the White Sox proved this.



I disagree with that. I think the Cubs would have won with Renteria and the Sox would win with him too. But someone has to pay for failure. And it's the manager. With the Cubs Renteria never had a team fail. They were just bad. This year's Sox failed.

I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense. Even Rodon's wife hated it. Right then I knew Ricky might lose us a game in the playoffs. And did he lose us that 3rd game? Not by himself like he did in Cleveland, but he was a huge part, and a manager shouldn't have a huge part. Leave that to the Craig Counsels of the world. Plus You can't out counsel Craig Counsel. He has a better gut for that type of insanity.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:30 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:31 pm 
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Using Rodon like that once is one thing, but to double down and do it again in the playoffs absolutely was a fireable offense.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:37 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.

Nope. We all know Rodon's history. It takes him 4 starts to get command. Rodon knows it too as all he threw were fastballs. I was convinced he'd walk guys. So he got beat in Cleveland having one pitch and he got beat in Oakland with his walks. It's as incredibly stupid as it gets.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Game 3 was as poorly managed a game as I can recall.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Can we tamper to get Joe Maddon too?


only if we understand that we will run him out of town at our convenience as well

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:39 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.

Nope. We all know Rodon's history. It takes him 4 starts to get command. Rodon knows it too as all he threw were fastballs. I was convinced he'd walk guys. So he got beat in Cleveland having one pitch and he got beat in Oakland with his walks. It's as incredibly stupid as it gets.



I might argue that if that's the case he shouldn't have been on the roster. You shouldn't be asking a manager to play one man short. If you give him to me I have to be able to use him.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.

Nope. We all know Rodon's history. It takes him 4 starts to get command. Rodon knows it too as all he threw were fastballs. I was convinced he'd walk guys. So he got beat in Cleveland having one pitch and he got beat in Oakland with his walks. It's as incredibly stupid as it gets.



I might argue that if that's the case he shouldn't have been on the roster. You shouldn't be asking a manager to play one man short. If you give him to me I have to be able to use him.


Does the manager have zero say on who get's to be on the playoff roster?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.

You have to have a reason to fire (or retain) a manager. Ricky gave them a couple of reasons to fire him.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:53 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.

Nope. We all know Rodon's history. It takes him 4 starts to get command. Rodon knows it too as all he threw were fastballs. I was convinced he'd walk guys. So he got beat in Cleveland having one pitch and he got beat in Oakland with his walks. It's as incredibly stupid as it gets.



I might argue that if that's the case he shouldn't have been on the roster. You shouldn't be asking a manager to play one man short. If you give him to me I have to be able to use him.


Throw him to mop up game #2, which ironically they made a big comeback in and could have one. Save Cease for the backup on Game #3.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Ricky sucked and God was watching.

No tears for him. I wouldn't have bitched too much if he was back but he opened the door.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:06 pm 
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Fact is that Ricky's fear and complacent attitude cost them the division down the last two weeks or so and then the playoffs. That gets you fired. If they'd have cruised to the division win that looked like it was a sure thing in mid September and lost two games in the first round he might still be here. But Ricky looked like he was more concerned with looking like a fuck up and lost his edge. Held on too tight. Too many very questionable lineups and too much fucking about with the pitching staff.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:08 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.

Nope. We all know Rodon's history. It takes him 4 starts to get command. Rodon knows it too as all he threw were fastballs. I was convinced he'd walk guys. So he got beat in Cleveland having one pitch and he got beat in Oakland with his walks. It's as incredibly stupid as it gets.



I might argue that if that's the case he shouldn't have been on the roster. You shouldn't be asking a manager to play one man short. If you give him to me I have to be able to use him.

He was champing on the bit to use him. He had him "scripted" in. He didn't give a fuck if it was bases loaded or not. Fuck it he isn't a reliever. Fuck it he hasn't pitched in 3 months. Fuck it, he won't have command. Fuck it he's relegated to one pitch because of it. Fuck it that Oakland knows it too and are more than willing to watch pitches go by. Just fuck it because the manager doesn't make much difference anyway


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:12 pm 
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JustAGayGuy wrote:
Fact is that Ricky's fear and complacent attitude cost them the division down the last two weeks or so and then the playoffs. That gets you fired. If they'd have cruised to the division win that looked like it was a sure thing in mid September and lost two games in the first round he might still be here. But Ricky looked like he was more concerned with looking like a fuck up and lost his edge. Held on too tight. Too many very questionable lineups and too much fucking about with the pitching staff.


His loyalty to Encarnacion and Mazara throughout the year was illogical. What did he owe either of those guys and what could they have done if he told them both to just sit at the end of the bench?

A blind man could see EE is done.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I'm sorry, but that Rodon move in Cleveland was a fireable offense.


It only stood out for its outrageous stupidity. It's like blaming the season on a misplayed ball by the leftfielder. Whoever the next manager is will make mistakes that are just as stupid, they just won't be quite as spectacular.


I agree. Whomever they hire is going to make an in game pitching decision that many here disagree with, and that blows up in his face. That can't be the standard for hiring or firing a manager. However, the combination of less than optimal lineups, the loyalty to players that weren't producing, and the pitching decisions didn't exactly inspire confidence that he was going to develop into some great post season manager.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:19 pm 
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I don't put Ricky in the obviously shitty manager group. I think he is in that middle group that neither adds nor detracts over the long haul. You can do better and it didn't cost much to move on so why not?

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