Jay Jaffe did a career retrospective on Buehrle for his annual Hall of Fame series:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-th ... k-buehrle/

He understandably concluded that Buehrle is not Hall worthy, but it's cool to see the whole Mark Buehrle story in one place. I had no idea he signed for a $150,000 signing bonus. That's pretty high for a 38th round pick.

He had a really good career. I guess if Pettite isn't getting in (which surprises me, given the fact that he played for good Yankees teams), not to mention Kaat and Tommy John, Buerhle isn't, either. He deserves votes, though, and I hope he doesn't get shut out the way Konerko did. I don't think either of them care.

Buehrle could have racked up more wins and a higher WAR, but he went on some bad losing streaks some years. Those corner pitches creeped out over the plate.

I think Buehrle falls short but if you take a deep look at the numbers there are some interesting things.

There are 15 pitchers in MLB history with 15+ seasons of 30 or more starts. All of them are in the HoF except Roger Clemens (who obviously would be on performance alone), Frank Tanana, and Buehrle. And if you take 15 consecutive seasons of 30+ starts all you have is Cy Young, Warren Spahn, Gaylord Perry, and Buehrle. Only 8 guys have ever thrown 200+ innings in 14 straight seasons. They're all in the HoF except Buehrle.

Again, there are too many guys like Buehrle who aren't in- Tommy John and Jim Kaat come immediately to mind. Then there are guys like Billy Pierce and David Cone who I would argue were better.

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Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Plus throw in 2 no hitters one being a perfect, guessing that should sway it Buehrles way no??

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He'll be one of the best lefties not in the Hall.

Of course, with your focus on W-L records, I'd think you'd be pretty hard on him. He had too many .500 or near-.500 seasons. That (and the losing streaks) frustrated me.

But for the Sox, he was great.

And his non-perfect one was as close as it gets...he walked Sosa and then picked him off.

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Yup

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Cone and Kevin Brown were better, Saberhagen as well.. He's not even as good as the best non hall guys.

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Edit--or maybe not.

Buehrle threw 198 IP to a 3.81 ERA (108 ERA+) for 1.2 WAR at the age of 36. With his pitching style and lack of serious injuries I don’t think it a stretch to say he could have pitched 4-6 more seasons if he wanted to.

You tack on another 40 wins, 6-7 WAR to what he accomplished already and you are staring at a HoF pitcher. Hell, he might have tacked on 10 more WAR. Can’t blame him for walking away when he did.

Joe Poznanski wrote something one time that milestones are accomplished late in a career not early. Obviously the occur late, but what he meant is that sticking around for 5 years or so when a player is obviously diminished is how you get to 300 wins, 3,000 hits, etc.

Like Gaylord Perry, at age 40 he had 279 wins. He was a HoF pitcher at that point but he kicked around for 4 more forgettable seasons with terrible teams and won 300 games. He might have wanted to win 300 games, but more likely he stuck around because he made more in those four seasons than the ten seasons prior. Guys now, Buehrle, why would they want to slog through 4-5 difficult seasons when they already have generational wealth in the bank.

His winning percentage is way better than Ryan or Blyleven.

While there are better guys not in the HoF, there are some that are in who weren't as good. I'd say he's comparable to Bunning and Newhouser.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The only guy to face the minimum three times.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I don’t know what the Hall of Fame entry will look like for starting pitchers anymore. I do find it ironic that closers are going in all the time now. But many great starters including Buehrle will barely get a look.

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I couldn't really say Buehrle was better than Jimmy Key.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm still pissed that he walked Sosa in that game.

He would have been the only guy to have 2 perfect games. Right? Maybe I'm wrong.

I mean there has only been like 25 perfect games or so. To have two would have been amazing.

He had a really cool career (no hitter, perfect game, world series title, save in the world series) but having watched his entire career, I never thought I was watching a Hall of Famer. How many years would you say he was even a true number one starter? According to the article, he actually is ahead of several starters from a WAR standpoint:

His 59.1 career WAR is 69th among starting pitchers, 14.2 WAR below the standard, and ahead of just 19 of the 65 enshrinees, only six of whom were elected by the BBWAA. Four of those were elected despite short careers (Dizzy Dean, Catfish Hunter, Sandy Koufax, Bob Lemon), but had other things going for them including stellar postseason work and better Hall of Fame Monitor scores, as did the longer-lasting Whitey Ford (whose bWAR is curiously low) and Herb Pennock.

Catfish Hunter is a really good comp for him. And frankly, Catfish is a questionable Hall of Famer himself. If we're using the terminology "Number One Starter" or "Ace" I would say Buehrle was a "Number Two Deluxe".

But I do think the way pitchers are now being used, that Buehrle's durability and skillset will be more appreciated by the writers/voters than they would have been twenty years ago.

Blowing hitters away with "filthy stuff" is fun to watch, but when you can only get through the lineup twice without falling apart, it's tough to say you're better than Buehrle.

I'm sure this stuff is all recorded and categorized on Fangraphs, I don't know for sure, but what I'm going to say is strictly anecdotal and comes from me watching most of Buehrle's starts throughout his career. Buehrle didn't really throw a curveball. He was a "fast"ball, changeup, cutter guy. But I specifically remember watching a close game where it was the eighth inning and Buehrle was in a tough spot with men on. The game was in the balance. (Here's where Jose Quintana would have given up a double off the wall and lost 3-2 due to a lack of "run support".) He was facing a middle of the order guy for the fourth time in the game. I don't remember who but it was a real hitter. It was a full count and the guy was fouling off pitch after pitch. And suddenly out of nowhere without previously having thrown a single curveball in the entire game Buehrle dropped Uncle Charlie on him for strike three. That's a fucking pitcher.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I was thinking to myself that Buehrle was the perfect 1A type starter ideally slotted as a 2. I think if he were a Yankee or Dodger that won a bunch of titles he would get in on personality, durability and wins. He's probably the perfect representative of that 2005 team that was more than the sum of it's parts, but will get no Hall of Famers (other than the Frank Thomas who had a cameo that year). Buehrle was on way too many not good enough 2nd place teams that had zero national exposure, and his number do not pop enough for stat heads.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

He accomplished more historic type goals than almost any pitcher in the history of the game but his day to day was just not as impressive.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

If Buehrle had been a part of a Royals like bullpen he would have been a HOFer.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Here's my controversial hot take: Jose Contreras should be a no-brainer for the HoF. He's almost an exact comp for Satchel Paige. They're both guys who were prevented from playing in the big leagues until advanced age through no fault of their own. And both were already legends when they finally arrived. The game Contreras pitched against the Orioles in Havana in 1999 is still talked about.

Contreras was listed at 31 years old when he got to the Yankees but he was almost certainly much closer to 40. I remember reading about a conversation/ball-busting between Coop, Contreras, and El Duque. Contreras's nickname in Cuba was El Titán de Bronce, The Bronze Titan. Coop asked El Duque if he was El Titán de Aluminio. And then El Duque said, "Seriously, how the fuck can this guy [Contreras] be listed as younger than I am? He was already a legend in Cuba when I was just breaking in."

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

But those guys did what Buehrle wouldn't--stick around forever. Not saying that's a good thing, but Buehrle could have tried to get to 250+ wins. I don't think he cared.

Hard to compare him to some of the right-handers people were mentioning above. Buehrle racked up a lot of wins for a lefty.

I'm surprised Cone didn't get more HOF love, having pitched in New York and won a high percentage of games.

No.


Buerhle had 3 seasons with an ERA under 3.5..and it was barely under 3.5.

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Do a 2 for 1 and put Konerko in too.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Also, it should be noted that he helped end the longest city World Series Championship drought that ever existed.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If Tony LaRussa was their manager, perhaps he could have politicked them in. Effing Hawk!

I hadn’t thought of it, but it’s a good comp.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Wow, didn't know he had a third one.

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Here's the funny thing for people who actually believe W/L record is "meaningless". If you look at almost every other number, Jose Quintana is better than Buehrle. I'm sure there are mentally deranged amateur GMs who would argue that Quintana was obviously better but simply lacked "run support".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don