I was going thru some game logs from last season and saw there were games they dropped him into coverage 18 and 16 times. That's just ridiculous.

You go thru game logs and listen to Jets podcasts? What a life you lead

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

It's pretty arguable it was a bad trade. You gave up two 1sts for one 12 win season with no playoff wins. Now you're paying an average edge rusher like the 2nd best defensive player in the league and the team is getting worse by the year.

If it was a good trade they would be able to recoup a lot of what they spent to acquire Mack in a trade right now. I think we can all agree they can't.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Is that how you analyze trades? It's the W-L record and playoff success? I don't think that is the best way, but how about we compare the Bears record with Mack, and the Bears record for the same number of games prior to the Mack trade?

The Bears are much better over these 3 years than they would have been otherwise.

I don't think that's a valid argument either. Mack is declining. Only you seemed to think he needed to be an All-Pro for 4 years to justify the trade.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Says the the guy with 48 thousand posts on a message board.

_________________
Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

Good one.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

My job responsibilities these days is more advisory and less hands-on so I have quite a bit of downtime at work. I like to listen to podcasts on Monday from teams that had a bad loss. Hamp and OB are probably the best.

Only me? Bill Barnwell explained why that was the case. And we're seeing Barnwell was right.

Do you think Pace does that trade if he knows the team would be in it's current condition right now? The answer is obviously no.

And maybe my reasoning was lazy, but yours was even worse for why the trade worked out. You're comparing a Bears team coached by Nagy with a different core of players to one coached by John Fox cashing a retirement check.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Mongo knows his shit when it comes to what's going on. I'm just a hype man.

_________________
Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

Thats cool. Just giving you some crap.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

_________________

Yes. He does that trade again. He does many other things different.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Agree to disagree. You don't trade for Mack if you don't have a QB. He didn't but thought he did.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Mack trade set them up for success. It didn't happen after year 1. I don't think you can make trades assuming most of your other moves are going to fail and therefore you don't make a move that makes your team better.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If the trade only makes you better for one season and then hamstrings you from improving your team while you get worse every year then of course you can reevaluate the trade based on the more data you have received since the first year.

It looks like it was a good trade. It turned out to be an inarguably bad one. They could use the $23 million a year and 2 1sts right about now.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It seems like your argument now is that with the benefit of hindsight the Bears should have instead tanked and started to rebuild rather than improve the team significantly. So, every move Pace made has been bad since he took over because it wasn't being done to rebuild. What was your expectation when the Bears traded for Mack? Did you think the Bears were going to be elite for the 4 years of his contract?

To me, the Mack trade was a good trade that wasn't able to overcome the many bad moves by Pace and the poor coaching job done by Nagy after year 1.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I thought Mack would be. He needed to be to make the trade worth it. When his play fell off, the team's did too. Now you're paying an average edge rusher top end money and gave up two premium picks for the privelage of doing so. That's a bad trade.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Are we judging it by his play or by the results of the team? Your point was about the team results and now it's about him.

You are just trying way too hard to act like the reason the Bears are not good is because of Mack and not because of the 10 other reasons that Pace failed. It's a bizarre take. It's like saying Allen Robinson was a bad signing because they didn't win a playoff game with him.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I've never seen a player praised for his positive influence with such meager stats (here tackles & sacks). Aren't a lot of great D linemen double teamed? But, rise above it to pile up numbers. Hub rides the theory a lot. Chris Spielman yesterday continuing the game announcers saying it. If Mack is a great player you'd think sooner or later he's going to have to put some great numbers up.

Except Allen Robinson has been above average last year and this year. Mack hasn't. Robinson is also making less than half what Mack is and they didn't give up two 1st rounders to acquire him.

I don't even have to try hard on this, which is why I would also say your take is pretty bizarre. Mack is the 2nd highest paid defender in league history, he's giving you league average production. He isn't good or is the team. Yet you're acting like it's a good trade because he did well the first year here. Sorry to say but the rest of the years count too, not just the first.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Now you are back to judging the player on their production and not the teams record.

Yeah, Mack "did well" his first year. No wonder you think he's been bad if being first team all-pro means you "did well".

When the trade was done, I think it was an expectation that he wouldn't be All-Pro his entire time here. Last year he was a pro bowl starter.

Still though, the Bears have been better than I think they would have been without him even with it being Mack + Kmet vs. 2 first round draft picks and a third round draft pick.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You've vacillated between the same two things. And really it doesn't matter, Mack fails at either so pick your poison.

But, it all worked out. I wanted GB to get Mack and by waiting we got a better player in Za'Darius Smith for about half the cost.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Bears will have won far more games with Mack + Kmet than I think they would have with those three other picks.

In terms of production, if you could offer the same trade and I knew the player would be an all-pro and make at least two pro bowl starts over the four years I would do it right now.


This is where all football discussions ultimately end up with you. It's just about the Packers.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'll ignore that last line because the same could be said of you and the Bears.

But yeah if we're using "Brick thinks the Hypothetical Bears would be worse than the Chicago Bears" as the deciding factor in the trade evaluation I guess that's gonna be tough for me to argue against.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

When talking about the Bears, yes it's true.

Yeah, that crazy thought that an All-Pro in 2018 and a pro bowl starter in 2018 and 2019 gave them a better team than whoever would replace him. I also think that Patrick Mahomes makes the Chiefs a better team but maybe he doesn't.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're a Bears fan, I'm a Packers fan, we're equally biased in NFL discussions because of that. Trying to argue otherwise will just lead to you looking even sillier.

And the fact that you're comparing Khalil Mack to Patrick Mahomes when Mack has been soundly outplayed by other edge rushers in his own division last year and this year means you've pretty much given up. Who are the QB's in the AFC West outplaying Mahomes currently?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You often go to the "Packers have a better player!" route on things.

I was pointing out the flaw in your "hypothetical Bears" point. Mack his first two years was a player who helped your team win.

If you can't even agree that Mack is a player that provides enough production to make your team better then no reason to go further.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

In a vacuum, sure, even this average to slightly above average version of Mack is worth having. When you take Mack and compare him to two 1sts + $23 million in cap room on more players then it becomes clear he's not worth having over 4-5 other combined starters.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You often go to "No they don't" route on things. As I said, it's laughable to suggest either of us is more biased or objective in this discussion so just stop.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul