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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:14 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Didn't Butchie authorize the hit on Phil? He knew it was all over when he got lost in Chinatown.



Not exactly. He washed his hands like Pilate. Or he seemed to. Perhaps he stuck it in Tony's ass at a later date, i.e. the last show.



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:18 pm 
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The only correct answer is whatever David Chase thinks. It's his made up story. It's in his head. If he doesn't know, then who cares? It isn't like JLN is going to produce a proper closure.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:20 pm 
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It was a disappointment to fade to black only to be treated to a magical, surfing, incest handjob, drama.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:32 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
It was a disappointment to fade to black only to be treated to a magical, surfing, incest handjob, drama.



Butchie's mom washed her hands like Pilate.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:29 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
SPOILERS


finished rewatching since it first aired. I guess I missed a lot of season 6 back in the day because some of it was new to me.

I always thought it was Gene's wife who got someone to whack tony for revenge. Thats why the guy in the restaurant had a members only jacket.

But now after rewatching it and paying closer attention, i think my original theory is too simple.

Here is what I think happened :

We only know of one of the five new york familes : The Lupertazzi Family - Bosses : Carmine / Little Carmine / Johnny Sack / Dom / Phil Leatardo.

Tony kills Phil without any commision sanction from the other 4 families. He doesn't even outsource it like has been done throughout the series. He stupidly has his own guys do it.

You dont kill a NY boss, especially from NJ which was considered a small time glorified outfit in the eyes of NY.

I think the four other families ordered the hit on Tony. This solves two things - revenge on whacking Phil without approval (and in front of his family), and killing Tony kills the RICO case as NJ/NY have a lot of ties w/ construction projects. If Tony flips, then NY is in big trouble.

But the twist is ................... Patsy and Paulie are in on it!

Paulie always wanted to be close to NY and at one time was considering changing sides. He tells Johnny Sack about the Ginny Sack joke Ralph says and is always close to Johnny Sack. Tony figures this out at the end and almost kills Paulie on the boat but changes his mind. He gives Paulie the Aprile crew job which Paulie doesn't want because its cursed. Paulie is probably pissed he gets passed over as capo by Bobby who is a clown for most of athe series and a driver for Junior. When the NY crew have a sitdown to plan the Sorpano hit, Butchie clearly says don't go after Paulie. And one of the NY crew is making fun of Bobby being a capo as he's considered a cheafur driver to Junior. And later when they have a sitdown with little carmine, Paule shakes Butchie's hand behind Tonys' back.

Patsy - he knows Tony killed his twin brother Spoons. He holds his tounge. At the end, his son is going to marry Tony's daughter. In that meeting where Patsy's family is meeting Tony's familes, he and his wife knows Tony is dead. That's why his wife fucks up the simple long face horse joke. It's the most easiest joke to tell but she is super nervous. Tony brings up their other son Jason and how Carlo's Jason was arrested and Carlo flipped on Tony to save his son. Implying Patsy may do the same thing. Patsy makes sure his wife changes the subject. The mere thought of Tony suspecting Patsy flipping to save his own son is enough to get him killed. Patsy now is more closer than ever to Tony with his son marrying Meadow. He has to act fast to save his own skin.

So Patsy probably works with Butchie to tell them where Tony will be that night. Probably got the info from his son as he knows the Sorpanos dinner plans from Meadow. He knows NY is going to off Tony anyway so he makes a deal by offering them that information.

Aftermath : Paulie and/or Patsy are now head of the NJ crew which is decimated and now owned by NY. NY owns all of NJ and they have a puppet w/ Paulie who was a complete fuck up and only thing he did well was take orders. Patsy was the only competent guy in Tony's crew and he has the makings of a boss or a 2nd like Silvio. Patsy can be counted on by the NY crew. NY is in a win - win situation with either of the two under them.

What do you guys think?

I think you could have saved time by copy and pasting that reddit theory instead of passing it off as your own.


this is my theory. I rewatched the entire series. maybe others have the same theory fine then.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:30 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
The only correct answer is whatever David Chase thinks. It's his made up story. It's in his head. If he doesn't know, then who cares? It isn't like JLN is going to produce a proper closure.

It figures you would miss the point of my argument. As Uncle Jun would say: Some people are so far behind in the race they actually think they're leading.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:32 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I like the theory that the 5 families agreed to finish off the Soprano family (glorified crew) because it was essentially down to just Tony. Split up the real estate. Just business.

Great show, great ending.



Agree.

I wasn't too hot about the ending when it was real time. I was like everyone else like what was that crap. But now reading up on Chase it's very good. Chase has always said he wants his shows to be like a book. Nothing definitive but open to interpretation.

I also think he did the ending the way he did as a chance to bring the show back some time later. Now that's not a possibility with JG gone.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:14 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
SPOILERS


finished rewatching since it first aired. I guess I missed a lot of season 6 back in the day because some of it was new to me.

I always thought it was Gene's wife who got someone to whack tony for revenge. Thats why the guy in the restaurant had a members only jacket.

But now after rewatching it and paying closer attention, i think my original theory is too simple.

Here is what I think happened :

We only know of one of the five new york familes : The Lupertazzi Family - Bosses : Carmine / Little Carmine / Johnny Sack / Dom / Phil Leatardo.

Tony kills Phil without any commision sanction from the other 4 families. He doesn't even outsource it like has been done throughout the series. He stupidly has his own guys do it.

You dont kill a NY boss, especially from NJ which was considered a small time glorified outfit in the eyes of NY.

I think the four other families ordered the hit on Tony. This solves two things - revenge on whacking Phil without approval (and in front of his family), and killing Tony kills the RICO case as NJ/NY have a lot of ties w/ construction projects. If Tony flips, then NY is in big trouble.

But the twist is ................... Patsy and Paulie are in on it!

Paulie always wanted to be close to NY and at one time was considering changing sides. He tells Johnny Sack about the Ginny Sack joke Ralph says and is always close to Johnny Sack. Tony figures this out at the end and almost kills Paulie on the boat but changes his mind. He gives Paulie the Aprile crew job which Paulie doesn't want because its cursed. Paulie is probably pissed he gets passed over as capo by Bobby who is a clown for most of athe series and a driver for Junior. When the NY crew have a sitdown to plan the Sorpano hit, Butchie clearly says don't go after Paulie. And one of the NY crew is making fun of Bobby being a capo as he's considered a cheafur driver to Junior. And later when they have a sitdown with little carmine, Paule shakes Butchie's hand behind Tonys' back.

Patsy - he knows Tony killed his twin brother Spoons. He holds his tounge. At the end, his son is going to marry Tony's daughter. In that meeting where Patsy's family is meeting Tony's familes, he and his wife knows Tony is dead. That's why his wife fucks up the simple long face horse joke. It's the most easiest joke to tell but she is super nervous. Tony brings up their other son Jason and how Carlo's Jason was arrested and Carlo flipped on Tony to save his son. Implying Patsy may do the same thing. Patsy makes sure his wife changes the subject. The mere thought of Tony suspecting Patsy flipping to save his own son is enough to get him killed. Patsy now is more closer than ever to Tony with his son marrying Meadow. He has to act fast to save his own skin.

So Patsy probably works with Butchie to tell them where Tony will be that night. Probably got the info from his son as he knows the Sorpanos dinner plans from Meadow. He knows NY is going to off Tony anyway so he makes a deal by offering them that information.

Aftermath : Paulie and/or Patsy are now head of the NJ crew which is decimated and now owned by NY. NY owns all of NJ and they have a puppet w/ Paulie who was a complete fuck up and only thing he did well was take orders. Patsy was the only competent guy in Tony's crew and he has the makings of a boss or a 2nd like Silvio. Patsy can be counted on by the NY crew. NY is in a win - win situation with either of the two under them.

What do you guys think?

I think you could have saved time by copy and pasting that reddit theory instead of passing it off as your own.


this is my theory. I rewatched the entire series. maybe others have the same theory fine then.


:lol: Just own the copy and paste

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:15 pm 
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To start, I agree with the consensus that Tony was shot in the final episode of the The Sopranos. The cinematography and the music indicate that Tony was shot and killed. Every other episode had a different song playing during the credits; the music typically complimented the episode. In the final episode, the music equally complimented the episode- silence. The silence seemed to indicate that "nothingness" i.e. Tony is no longer alive.

I believe that Valery from the Pine Barrens episode was the one who ultimately shot Tony in the final episode. Here are my reasons why:

1st) Valery, the Russian mobster shot in Pine Barrens episode, was highly trained in the military. It is unlikely that he merely disappeared never to be seen again. In addition, Chris and Paulie noticed that his blood trail suddenly vanished and their car was stolen. All of the circumstances indicate that Valery made it out alive. Tony was a very cautious person, especially in the last episode given all of the killings going on, and therefore it required a person with very keen skills to get close to Tony without him becoming suspicious.

2nd) Tony was shot in front of his family. Although the mobsters on the show were brutal and merciless, they typically left family out of the equation when it came to "hits." The mob typically has a code which prohibits harm to the target's wife and children. Judging from the the other murders on the show, I think most of the mobsters or hit men would have aborted once they had seen Tony's family surrounding him. Therefore, the mafia style hits are typically business-like, but this hit seemed more personal for a guy to be killed in front of his entire family. Valery had a personal vendetta against the Soprano crew and wouldn't care about injuring Tony's family in the name of revenge.

3rd) The new york family and the new jersey family seemed to have come to a resolution. Alot of blood was already shed and both families had strong financial interests in each other. After all of the killings, I don't see how it was in the new york family's best interests to kill Tony- it would probably have been cheaper to keep around. Also, the show demonstrated that Phil was the one who really wanted and initiated all of the killings, so once he was killed and it is not apparent who remained in the New York who would still want Tony to be killed so badly.

tl;dr Valery, russian mobster dude from Pine Barrens episode, killed tony.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:38 pm 
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To the Redditor who originally posted this: Didn't the Phil hit take place in front of his wife and grandkids?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:44 pm 
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Brick wrote:
To start, I agree with the consensus that Tony was shot in the final episode of the The Sopranos. The cinematography and the music indicate that Tony was shot and killed. Every other episode had a different song playing during the credits; the music typically complimented the episode. In the final episode, the music equally complimented the episode- silence. The silence seemed to indicate that "nothingness" i.e. Tony is no longer alive.

I believe that Valery from the Pine Barrens episode was the one who ultimately shot Tony in the final episode. Here are my reasons why:

1st) Valery, the Russian mobster shot in Pine Barrens episode, was highly trained in the military. It is unlikely that he merely disappeared never to be seen again. In addition, Chris and Paulie noticed that his blood trail suddenly vanished and their car was stolen. All of the circumstances indicate that Valery made it out alive. Tony was a very cautious person, especially in the last episode given all of the killings going on, and therefore it required a person with very keen skills to get close to Tony without him becoming suspicious.

2nd) Tony was shot in front of his family. Although the mobsters on the show were brutal and merciless, they typically left family out of the equation when it came to "hits." The mob typically has a code which prohibits harm to the target's wife and children. Judging from the the other murders on the show, I think most of the mobsters or hit men would have aborted once they had seen Tony's family surrounding him. Therefore, the mafia style hits are typically business-like, but this hit seemed more personal for a guy to be killed in front of his entire family. Valery had a personal vendetta against the Soprano crew and wouldn't care about injuring Tony's family in the name of revenge.

3rd) The new york family and the new jersey family seemed to have come to a resolution. Alot of blood was already shed and both families had strong financial interests in each other. After all of the killings, I don't see how it was in the new york family's best interests to kill Tony- it would probably have been cheaper to keep around. Also, the show demonstrated that Phil was the one who really wanted and initiated all of the killings, so once he was killed and it is not apparent who remained in the New York who would still want Tony to be killed so badly.

tl;dr Valery, russian mobster dude from Pine Barrens episode, killed tony.

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One of the many reasons sopranos was very overrated, that whole season sucked..then one great episode( Pine Barrens) and they end the season finale.. There was never a mention of any of it after that.

One problem with your theory Rick.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... yk&ampcf=1

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nardi wrote:
The only correct answer is whatever David Chase thinks. It's his made up story. It's in his head. If he doesn't know, then who cares? It isn't like JLN is going to produce a proper closure.

It figures you would miss the point of my argument. As Uncle Jun would say: Some people are so far behind in the race they actually think they're leading.

I didn't read your point. Took enough effort to scroll by your point.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:18 pm 
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Brick wrote:
To start, I agree with the consensus that Tony was shot in the final episode of the The Sopranos. The cinematography and the music indicate that Tony was shot and killed. Every other episode had a different song playing during the credits; the music typically complimented the episode. In the final episode, the music equally complimented the episode- silence. The silence seemed to indicate that "nothingness" i.e. Tony is no longer alive.

I believe that Valery from the Pine Barrens episode was the one who ultimately shot Tony in the final episode. Here are my reasons why:

1st) Valery, the Russian mobster shot in Pine Barrens episode, was highly trained in the military. It is unlikely that he merely disappeared never to be seen again. In addition, Chris and Paulie noticed that his blood trail suddenly vanished and their car was stolen. All of the circumstances indicate that Valery made it out alive. Tony was a very cautious person, especially in the last episode given all of the killings going on, and therefore it required a person with very keen skills to get close to Tony without him becoming suspicious.

2nd) Tony was shot in front of his family. Although the mobsters on the show were brutal and merciless, they typically left family out of the equation when it came to "hits." The mob typically has a code which prohibits harm to the target's wife and children. Judging from the the other murders on the show, I think most of the mobsters or hit men would have aborted once they had seen Tony's family surrounding him. Therefore, the mafia style hits are typically business-like, but this hit seemed more personal for a guy to be killed in front of his entire family. Valery had a personal vendetta against the Soprano crew and wouldn't care about injuring Tony's family in the name of revenge.

3rd) The new york family and the new jersey family seemed to have come to a resolution. Alot of blood was already shed and both families had strong financial interests in each other. After all of the killings, I don't see how it was in the new york family's best interests to kill Tony- it would probably have been cheaper to keep around. Also, the show demonstrated that Phil was the one who really wanted and initiated all of the killings, so once he was killed and it is not apparent who remained in the New York who would still want Tony to be killed so badly.

tl;dr Valery, russian mobster dude from Pine Barrens episode, killed tony.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:23 pm 
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312player wrote:
.then one great episode( Pine Barrens)


"Pine Barrens" is the worst episode in the entire series. Almost an hour of just Christopher and Paulie freezing their asses off and bitching at each other.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:32 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
.then one great episode( Pine Barrens)


"Pine Barrens" is the worst episode in the entire series. Almost an hour of just Christopher and Paulie freezing their asses off and bitching at each other.

When it's all said and done, I'm still a little pissed about Christopher being dead. Most interesting character in the history of television


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:33 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
.then one great episode( Pine Barrens)


"Pine Barrens" is the worst episode in the entire series. Almost an hour of just Christopher and Paulie freezing their asses off and bitching at each other.

When it's all said and done, I'm still a little pissed about Christopher being dead. Most interesting character in the history of television

:lol: What? How is he the most interesting in history?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:37 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
To the Redditor who originally posted this: Didn't the Phil hit take place in front of his wife and grandkids?

I think lots of people misinterpret or forget Tony's line in Blue Comet, said to Carm when he's informing her that Bobby is dead, Sil was shot and in the hospital, and he's about to go on the run: "Families don't get touched, you know that."

Just because nuclear family members are, theoretically, less likely to get murdered than the intended mob target doesn't mean that the hit won't happen in front of family members. Also, real mob history (which is incorporated into the Sopranos-verse) is littered with wives or girlfriends of mobsters/mob targets getting clipped as collateral damage, and it even happens in the world of the Sopranos: Lorraine's boytoy gets murdered along with her, the rub-and-tug owner's wife is beaten along with him, the garbage truck driver in a route dispute gets beaten nearly to death in front of his kid, Johnny Sack threatens to kill Carmine Jr. and his wife, Joe Peeps and his girlfriend are killed by Tony B, and so on.

This rule that Tony supposedly broke about how and when mob violence is meted out, and how surgical it is supposed to be in its accuracy, is one that is broken all the time, even among made guys. Then again, those same guys who "bend more rules than the Catholic Church" also love to see themselves as honorable soldiers in some kind of war, so making up a zero-tolerance rule about families seeing murders or violence just to take a guy out would be pretty on brand.

Also, this all demonstrates the problems with trying to judge the ending based on who did the implied killing based on evidence not explicitly shown to the viewer by the writers/directors. Did Tony get killed for breaking some rule in his killing of Phil Leotardo? Well, there are supposed rules about families not getting touched, but that rule and a whole bunch of other supposed rules are bent or broken all the time so...maybe?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:38 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
.then one great episode( Pine Barrens)


"Pine Barrens" is the worst episode in the entire series. Almost an hour of just Christopher and Paulie freezing their asses off and bitching at each other.


"A Hit Is A Hit" is on the line, would like to have a word with you. Also you have a message from someone or something called "D-Girl".


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:42 pm 
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He's not the most interesting, but he is very interesting. He's someone who had all these aspirations to be something greater than a criminal, but every time he tried, he revealed himself to be lazy and stupid -- "I must be loyle to my capo." For all the time he spent thinking show business was his calling, it turns out being in the mob, of all things, actually was his calling: he was a sociopath with a crackerjack shot. You think of Tony as someone who could have been successful in a lot of things but chose crime, but Christopher really only could have thrived in crime, and then he eventually screwed that up too.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:46 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
He's not the most interesting, but he is very interesting. He's someone who had all these aspirations to be something greater than a criminal, but every time he tried, he revealed himself to be lazy and stupid -- "I must be loyle to my capo." For all the time he spent thinking show business was his calling, it turns out being in the mob, of all things, actually was his calling: he was a sociopath with a crackerjack shot. You think of Tony as someone who could have been successful in a lot of things but chose crime, but Christopher really only could have thrived in crime, and then he eventually screwed that up too.

I need to go back and rewatch this series. It has been too long.

I liked the Christopher character, but I don't think he would come to mind in terms of the most interesting character in TV history.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:48 pm 
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Christopher has at least two of the funniest lines in the show: "she must have crawled under there for warmth," "I was trying to say something positive cuz she's your friend," and probably more.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:48 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
.then one great episode( Pine Barrens)


"Pine Barrens" is the worst episode in the entire series. Almost an hour of just Christopher and Paulie freezing their asses off and bitching at each other.

When it's all said and done, I'm still a little pissed about Christopher being dead. Most interesting character in the history of television

:lol: What? How is he the most interesting in history?

Every thing he did was interesting. Good, bad, indifferent. For fucksake, he even went to hell. Packed a lot of life into 30 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:50 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
.then one great episode( Pine Barrens)


"Pine Barrens" is the worst episode in the entire series. Almost an hour of just Christopher and Paulie freezing their asses off and bitching at each other.

When it's all said and done, I'm still a little pissed about Christopher being dead. Most interesting character in the history of television

:lol: What? How is he the most interesting in history?

Every thing he did was interesting. Good, bad, indifferent. For fucksake, he even went to hell. Packed a lot of life into 30 years.

He was a good character, but he wasn't even the most interesting character on his own show.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:50 pm 
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I will say that "D-Girl" and "A Hit Is a Hit," two episodes about Christopher pursuing his passions, turned out not to be very good, which doesn't really help my argument for what a fascinating character he was.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:56 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Nardi wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
.then one great episode( Pine Barrens)


"Pine Barrens" is the worst episode in the entire series. Almost an hour of just Christopher and Paulie freezing their asses off and bitching at each other.

When it's all said and done, I'm still a little pissed about Christopher being dead. Most interesting character in the history of television

:lol: What? How is he the most interesting in history?

Every thing he did was interesting. Good, bad, indifferent. For fucksake, he even went to hell. Packed a lot of life into 30 years.

He was a good character, but he wasn't even the most interesting character on his own show.

He was more multi-dimensional than anyone else.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:05 pm 
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Paulie and Christopher should have had a spin off comedy show together. They were awesome together.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
NWsider4-3-3 wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:

im saying there is dissent and was dissent in tony's crew. only Sil was the only guy loyal to Tony.


silvio lied to tony about stealing from the esplanade construction site.

"the timelines were off"

Sil fucking with the esplanade job site via Patsy (ha!) was him testing Tony after he (Tony) elevated Christopher to run Paulie's crew while Paulie was in the jail on that gun charge. Silvio appeared to think that Tony was playing favorites with Chrissy and excusing his bad behavior, even as the new leader of Paulie's crew (bringing up Chris' "Napoleon thing", being visibly frustrated with an elated Christopher after the dinner announcing his promotion, Sil tossing in "that's the way certain people want it" in announcing the promotion). In response, Silvio apparently felt that he could make a little easy cash and show Tony that his anointing of Christopher as the "Hair Apparent" could create resentment among people in the family. It was like a test, and Tony's meeting with Sil in the basement at the end of the episode was him passing.

Also, oddly enough, Silvio wasn't even supposed to be the one doing all that. The job-site pilfering plot line was meant to be for Paulie, but Tony Sirico was recovering from back surgery during much of the filming for that season, and was unable to perform, so a bunch of stuff that was supposed to be for him got shuffled around to other members of the family. Silvio is without a doubt the most stand-up guy for Tony in the entire Sopranos world, nobody has Tony's back better than Sil.


i don't argue much of your post, but, a consiglierie would never 'test' his boss.

my point is that silvio was not unconditionally devoted to his boss because he spitefully stole from his boss. his wife also made derogatory comments about tony when tony was recovering from the gunshot.

a devoted consiglierie would have immediately told her to shut her mouth.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:14 pm 
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NWsider4-3-3 wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
NWsider4-3-3 wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:

im saying there is dissent and was dissent in tony's crew. only Sil was the only guy loyal to Tony.


silvio lied to tony about stealing from the esplanade construction site.

"the timelines were off"

Sil fucking with the esplanade job site via Patsy (ha!) was him testing Tony after he (Tony) elevated Christopher to run Paulie's crew while Paulie was in the jail on that gun charge. Silvio appeared to think that Tony was playing favorites with Chrissy and excusing his bad behavior, even as the new leader of Paulie's crew (bringing up Chris' "Napoleon thing", being visibly frustrated with an elated Christopher after the dinner announcing his promotion, Sil tossing in "that's the way certain people want it" in announcing the promotion). In response, Silvio apparently felt that he could make a little easy cash and show Tony that his anointing of Christopher as the "Hair Apparent" could create resentment among people in the family. It was like a test, and Tony's meeting with Sil in the basement at the end of the episode was him passing.

Also, oddly enough, Silvio wasn't even supposed to be the one doing all that. The job-site pilfering plot line was meant to be for Paulie, but Tony Sirico was recovering from back surgery during much of the filming for that season, and was unable to perform, so a bunch of stuff that was supposed to be for him got shuffled around to other members of the family. Silvio is without a doubt the most stand-up guy for Tony in the entire Sopranos world, nobody has Tony's back better than Sil.


i don't argue much of your post, but, a consiglierie would never 'test' his boss.

my point is that silvio was not unconditionally devoted to his boss because he spitefully stole from his boss. his wife also made derogatory comments about tony when tony was recovering from the gunshot.

a devoted consiglierie would have immediately told her to shut her mouth.


Remember when Carm saw Pussy's wife selling hotcakes at the grocery store. She asked if something were to happen to Tony would she be take cared of? What a joke. None of those guys would have taken care of her. They would have ignored her just like pussy's wife, the Aprile wife, and later Ginny Sack. I don't think Sil would have even lifted a finger if Tony was dead.

They sort of proved it when tony got shot by jr. Paulie and vito were arguing about giving Carmella any money ONLY AFTER Tony started to get better and was going to pull it out they actually got the money.

We see Carmella in a 1 bedroom apt if there was a sequel.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:18 pm 
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Brick wrote:
To start, I agree with the consensus that Tony was shot in the final episode of the The Sopranos. The cinematography and the music indicate that Tony was shot and killed. Every other episode had a different song playing during the credits; the music typically complimented the episode. In the final episode, the music equally complimented the episode- silence. The silence seemed to indicate that "nothingness" i.e. Tony is no longer alive.

I believe that Valery from the Pine Barrens episode was the one who ultimately shot Tony in the final episode. Here are my reasons why:

1st) Valery, the Russian mobster shot in Pine Barrens episode, was highly trained in the military. It is unlikely that he merely disappeared never to be seen again. In addition, Chris and Paulie noticed that his blood trail suddenly vanished and their car was stolen. All of the circumstances indicate that Valery made it out alive. Tony was a very cautious person, especially in the last episode given all of the killings going on, and therefore it required a person with very keen skills to get close to Tony without him becoming suspicious.

2nd) Tony was shot in front of his family. Although the mobsters on the show were brutal and merciless, they typically left family out of the equation when it came to "hits." The mob typically has a code which prohibits harm to the target's wife and children. Judging from the the other murders on the show, I think most of the mobsters or hit men would have aborted once they had seen Tony's family surrounding him. Therefore, the mafia style hits are typically business-like, but this hit seemed more personal for a guy to be killed in front of his entire family. Valery had a personal vendetta against the Soprano crew and wouldn't care about injuring Tony's family in the name of revenge.

3rd) The new york family and the new jersey family seemed to have come to a resolution. Alot of blood was already shed and both families had strong financial interests in each other. After all of the killings, I don't see how it was in the new york family's best interests to kill Tony- it would probably have been cheaper to keep around. Also, the show demonstrated that Phil was the one who really wanted and initiated all of the killings, so once he was killed and it is not apparent who remained in the New York who would still want Tony to be killed so badly.

tl;dr Valery, russian mobster dude from Pine Barrens episode, killed tony.

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yeah, i can see the russian money-launderer behind something like this:

motives -

- right-hand man who saved his life in chechnya
- tony's crew attempted to kill his right-hand man for no good reason
- tony lied to him


situation -

the war with new york saw tony's earnings shrink and tony became useless as a current/future client
the war with new york also weakened tony's power to use against him
he could probably grab some of the hoard of cash that he socked away overseas for tony if tony was out of the picture


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