It's a balance for me. Like I said, he does good work in places few others are willing to enter.

At the same time, he is a Roman Catholic priest, the only christian faith directly established by Christ himself. There is a gravitas to his office that no other religion can claim. Yet it seems like he cheapens it by imitating the snake dancers and store front preachers because he thinks it is more digestible. I may have it all wrong. He may just be more a product of post vatican II seminary training where he was taught accessibility and ecumenism. It just seems to me from an admittedly outside perspective that he is pandering in his ceremonial duties (and don't minimize the importance of the ceremony).

I think his pastoral work is perfectly in line with teachings, although I don't always agree with his analysis or methods but that is another matter. The guy puts his faith into practice, challenges and is completely engaged in the hard work.

At its most base level, and this is entirely on me, I don't trust a priest that spends so much time on his physical appearance.

So there is the balancing act of my thoughts on Pfleger.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Hey guys, just to comment about 40 year-old accusations:

The when of a claim doesn't affect whether or not it is logical or true (different things, I know), despite the fact that it obviously affects persuasiveness.

However, I myself will keep an open mind, since this happened to many of my friends. One blew his head off with a shotgun; in high school, we used to joke about this manner of death as being "Hemingway-style." When I heard he had done it, I felt so stupid because he was obviously considering this back then. Another guy died in a car accident that I am pretty sure was suicide.

A few (six) other guys are just kind of off. They are probably running at about 50% of their potential. I hope they do not die alone.

One of their brothers who I got to know well told me about it. It was the same as women who have been raped. They blame themselves, they feel tainted, they can't get clear the shadow that follows them from the air around them. And it is not something they can compartmentalize; it seeps in, unconsciously, to all of their thoughts, and they see themselves, in every theater, as inept, worthless, etc.

And as men, they feel ashamed, less manly, and so sometimes it does take decades for this to come out. I know eight guys who this positively happened to. Two are dead, five never told the authorities (even though their families and some friends know), and one filed a complaint 31 years later. I haven't talked to him since that happened and have no idea if he got money or what.

So it's good to be skeptical, but part of being skeptical means that you haven't made your mind up yet.

This did not happen to me. I need no sympathy. I do not post regularly on this board.

That's a very specific mult.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

why is this mult necessary?

Don't be a little bitch like your slutty friends who gangbanged a bunch of priests.

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Agreed.. I never understood how somebody could wait decades to unleash a horrible truth ..until a friend of mine ( her brother was molested by a priest at St. bruno) asked me " if you were raped would you tell anybody?

Then I understoid.. Im not sure what Id do if I were an 11 year old who got abused.

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I was at Quigley South when a priest there got caught. They covered it up hard. One of my friends killed himself 3 days before Christmas, it was not related to the abuse but to other shitty things this guy was doing. It was kind of an open secret about a couple of the priests that taught there and he was one of them. When the police came to investigate my friends death. I was taken out of class and told to not implicate the school or anyone or thing going on there or else. Needless to say when I got called to the Rectors office for my interview not only was my parents not there but they where not informed. I sat down and looked all those fuckers in the eye and told the police the entire truth. 3 days later I was called to the Counselors office and told that I was not being allowed to return as of next semester.That was when I lost faith in not only humans but God as well. The shit they let this guy get away with is astonishing. If I had some balls I would find him today I would beat his kneecaps with a pipe. the guys I know who got fucked with by the priests there not one of them turned out well. One even got ordained then got busted doing the same thing.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

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exactly. what little kid is going to talk against what they have been told by everyone and their parents as God's representative.

Ex White Sox player and announcer Tom Paciorek just went thru this a few years ago. the story is fucking hard to read. not just him but his brothers were molested. that's even worse.

https://www.vintagedetroit.com/blog/201 ... -baseball/

thats a sad story man. but you were brave to tell the truth. at least you can live with yourself knowing you did the right thing even though they kicked you out of school and played a mind life trick on you at that young age.



you had balls. you probably had the biggest balls in your school to not go along with the lie. you're tougher than most people.

brother of first accuser joins in
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/father-michael-pfleger-facing-second-child-sex-abuse-allegation-archdiocese-says/



of interest is fleger's lawyer's account

The Trib has a very long column on this today. Apparently they spent hours interviewing the accusers (brothers). They seemed to remember a lot of details of the apartments, cars, etc., but that isn't proof of anything in and of itself. The accusations are pretty disturbing...a variety of oral and penetration. The younger guy said he often pretended he was asleep while it happened. It is kind of strange the brothers never told each other of the dozens of acts that occurred over many years, and the guy asking for $20k said he did so for "proof," which is an odd strategy.

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"And that little boy...was me."
-Kamala Harris

really?

there are other branches of christianity that are an apostolic church, just like the catholic church.

I had an uncle who committed suicide in college, for which my dad and grandmother both believe(d) was abused by a pastor. I have a cousin who had an unusually close relationship with Pfleger, and later died of AIDS. I remember being uncomfortable at his funeral at St. Sabina, especially when members of my family bristled at any negative mention of Father Pfleger.

Fortunately my dad was upfront with me when I was old enough to understand that about his brother. But even before that I distinctly remember how my grandmother venomously called guys like Pfleger "pulpit pimps". I don't know about the oddly timed claims of two brothers, but I do believe that where there's smoke, there's fire.

Unfortunately.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I’m sure your understanding of apostolic is different. And their are four marks of the Catholic Church. Apostolic is only one of them.

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Any accusation of abuse should be disturbing to all of us.

It’s not the least bit odd that they didn’t ever Discuss it amongst themselves.

Asking for $20,000, was his way of trying to get Pfleger to admit it. He was very clear about that in his interviews apparently. Again, not odd at all in and of itself. Especially when you consider how powerful of a man Pfleger is.

All you have to do is think back to Danny Hastert, that’s how he got caught

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Unfortunately Hastert is also “dman”. Not...

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Hawaii (fuck) You

i'm not sure what that means...if that means the nicene creed, the orthodox church and other churches recite the creed. as far as apostolic, st. peter was the 1st bishop of rome and st. andrew was the 1st bishop of constantinople; brothers and both apostles of Christ - over time, each bishop became known as 'pope' and 'patriarch', respectively.

I never had a priest take a personal interest in me but I never really looked for it either. There was a fried on mine who one swooped in on when his dad died. He's never said anything happened but he was always getting the perqs of being an alterboy (funerals and weddings pay) and was frequently invited to the residence...alone.

I finally was a little friendly with some in high school. I think predators would shy away from anyone with some self confidence by then. However, the principal at Loyola was touching students. I had a friend I was close to in grade school who went there. He got weird in high school and eventually killed himself. I know for a fact this guy molested him.

I heard the men accusing Pflager on the news yesterday. Unfortunately, they seemed believable. One was a lifelong cop, not someone grubbing for a short money payday that would damage his reputation in his profession

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

The four marks are what distinguish Catholicism form Orthodox churches. One, holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

As you correctly stated, there are some Orthodox churches that are apostolic.

They are not in union with the bishop of Rome so they are not one with him.

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Kids shouldn't be able to describe the living quarters of a priest.

EVER.

This will likely be the end of Pfleger's service publicly as a priest.

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the nicene creed (originally written in greek) has that sentence in the same creed that i say...in the original greek.



this means: one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

in greek, catholic means universal...it doesn't mean the nicene creed is only for catholics. i'm somewhat aware of the minute religious difference(s), but more aware of the political disputes that separated the 2 churches that were once one.

the fact that father pfleger can't get married goes against the original church...i believe the latin church banned priests from marriage only 1,000 years ago, roughly 1,000 years after the founding of christianity.

Catholic means universal across both faiths.

The differences are small in appearance, but somewhat profound metaphysically. The biggest difference is in the Creed in two places.

One we discussed, which is the four marks.

Secondly, who the Holy Spirit proceeds from.

But as you said, the main reasons I suspect were political.

As an aside, The Lutherans for instance substitute the word Christian for Catholic when they recite the creed.

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Can't agree with you more strongly.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

yep.

See.....we can all find common ground every once in a while

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I've read the Bible through and studied the early churches. All of "Christian" demoninations are just offshoots of the Catholic church. They follow man made doctrine in some sort or another. They follow about Jesus, but not what he said. Follow man-made pagan holidays. Read about the holidays, worshipping Mary as a co-mediatrix, statues, false doctrine. When Jesus died his small group of followers were on the run from persecution. That small group survived. Little is known about them. People get in trouble following men and trusting what men say. Read for yourself. Study.

Most of us have more in common than not. Most.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Religion seems really silly when you read threads like this. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. But the arguments over what people meant 2000 years ago when they literally thought the sun revolved around the earth is just weird to me. I was raised catholic. My parents brought me to church every Sunday and to Sunday school and all that stuff. My mother cried when I said I didn't wish to go through confirmation. To me, it felt little different from Greek and Roman mythology. The rules and mythology of catholicism is fairly derivative to me as well.

I just never understood it.

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This signature space is available for inappropriate, suggestive, and lewd ideas.

I think the biggest reason to not be religious is that the lines at Costco are really short on Sunday mornings.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!