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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:34 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:


Portnoy is going to run for President.



He'll win if he does.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:36 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:39 am 
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Can someone explain when the repayment for the short is due? Can't the hedges just sit and wait until this all dies down to cover the shorts? Or is there some requirement they have to show liquidity to cover the short at the current market price? Why cant they just wait this out and then get out?


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:41 am 
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billypootons wrote:
Can someone explain when the repayment for the short is due? Can't the hedges just sit and wait until this all dies down to cover the shorts? Or is there some requirement they have to show liquidity to cover the short at the current market price? Why cant they just wait this out and then get out?


They can, but short sellers have to pay a fee for borrowing the shares. Plus as the trade moves against them, they have to post collateral.

So if you short at $10, and the stock goes to $50, you are losing $40/share. That is a lot of collateral. Given the moves in this stock, you can see why shorts got busted.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:42 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?
Not buy it?

The problem with short selling is that it incentivizes those against it to hurt a company as much as possible. They were telling everyone they could that Gamestop is terrible and is on the way to $0.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:42 am 
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billypootons wrote:
Or is there some requirement they have to show liquidity to cover the short at the current market price?


Yes (maintenance margin)

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:42 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


I don’t like aggressively and actively bankrupting companies.

Where would Tesla be if the short sellers succeeded in destroying that company multiple times?

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:44 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:


Portnoy is going to run for President.



He'll win if he does.


I just looked into it:



He could take the Trump vote, and be far less controversial so there would be much less of a Resistance.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:44 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.

The rich have been doing it to the poor since the beginning of time. The only difference between the Pyramids and the Empire State Building is that the Egyptians didn't have unions.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:45 am 
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denisdman wrote:
billypootons wrote:
Can someone explain when the repayment for the short is due? Can't the hedges just sit and wait until this all dies down to cover the shorts? Or is there some requirement they have to show liquidity to cover the short at the current market price? Why cant they just wait this out and then get out?


They can, but short sellers have to pay a fee for borrowing the shares. Plus as the trade moves against them, they have to post collateral.

So if you short at $10, and the stock goes to $50, you are losing $40/share. That is a lot of collateral. Given the moves in this stock, you can see why shorts got busted.


and there must be some tracking of how many GME shorts remain?


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:48 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

Don’t buy it? I think there’s something distasteful about betting on a company that you have no interest in.

I know that’s naive and all but explicitly rooting for the failure of a business doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of efficiently allocating capital. And obviously if you take things to the extreme, rooting for a business to fail is a much greater issue than betting against a football team.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:53 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


I don’t like aggressively and actively bankrupting companies.

Where would Tesla be if the short sellers succeeded in destroying that company multiple times?


Companies that are well run do not get bankrupted by short sellers. Often times, short sellers expose frauds. Citron has many times. It seems you have more faith in corporate execs lining their own pockets by using aggressive accounting than the forensic accountants who try to expose frauds and fund themselves by short selling.

If your only option is to buy a stock long, then capital gets misallocated. Each business is measured by their returns on capital, and fundamental investors and activists push management teams to properly run these companies.

Short selling is a vital check on the system. Sure some funds abuse it. But many more shops are irrationally pumping overvalued stocks.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:54 am 
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denisdman wrote:
No chance TP. I love the idea that a certain segment of the population believes the game is rigged, then attempts to change the supposedly rigged game, then complains when the rigged game bites them in the ass.



That's not what's happening though. What's happening is that the guys who have been rigging the game have had it shoved straight up their asses and now are expressing fake concern that the guys who shoved it up their asses may get hurt and this will "end in tears". Leon Cooperman and Ken Griffin care, you see.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:55 am 
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I will give you a recent example:


https://www.royalgazette.com/re-insuran ... ay-450000/

This dude was busted by investors who exposed his looting.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:57 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


Not sure if serious, but it's not supposed to be a gambling mechanism. The stock market has a purpose, and it is to allocate and provide capital and allow for investment in various companies. Short selling adds no value and has the potential to destroy the stock price of businesses.

I trade options, including shorts, all the time. But I'm not under the impression that it is good. It's just gambling, and unfortunately it's gambling that can come at the expense of other companies and investors.

If a stock is overvalued, just don't buy it. Seems simple enough.

I also don't necessarily advocate banning short positions, but let's not act like it is some necessary element of a functioning market.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:59 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
billypootons wrote:
Or is there some requirement they have to show liquidity to cover the short at the current market price?


Yes (maintenance margin)


Right. People get confused when they say borrow regarding shorting.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:59 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


I don’t like aggressively and actively bankrupting companies.

Where would Tesla be if the short sellers succeeded in destroying that company multiple times?


Companies that are well run do not get bankrupted by short sellers. Often times, short sellers expose frauds. Citron has many times. It seems you have more faith in corporate execs lining their own pockets by using aggressive accounting than the forensic accountants who try to expose frauds and fund themselves by short selling.

If your only option is to buy a stock long, then capital gets misallocated. Each business is measured by their returns on capital, and fundamental investors and activists push management teams to properly run these companies.

Short selling is a vital check on the system. Sure some funds abuse it. But many more shops are irrationally pumping overvalued stocks.

Short sellers may find fraud but mostly they use their power to try and destroy the company. Gamestop isn't a great company but they aren't being sold short to look for fraud. They are being sold short so hedge funds can make money on their demise.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:59 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


I don’t like aggressively and actively bankrupting companies.

Where would Tesla be if the short sellers succeeded in destroying that company multiple times?


Companies that are well run do not get bankrupted by short sellers. Often times, short sellers expose frauds. Citron has many times. It seems you have more faith in corporate execs lining their own pockets by using aggressive accounting than the forensic accountants who try to expose frauds and fund themselves by short selling.

If your only option is to buy a stock long, then capital gets misallocated. Each business is measured by their returns on capital, and fundamental investors and activists push management teams to properly run these companies.

Short selling is a vital check on the system. Sure some funds abuse it. But many more shops are irrationally pumping overvalued stocks.



Why is it a necessity to have long options either? Why can't people just buy and sell shares of companies they like?

To say that shorts are necessary because of long positions is completely missing the point.

Think beyond the current system.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:06 am 
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They get rid of futures too. That is just gambling.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:09 am 
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At about $20 billion in losses for the short sellers.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:13 am 
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redskingreg wrote:
Can’t see GameStop without hearing “IT’S MA’AM!”




:lol:

Maybe the funniest clip I've ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:16 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


Not sure if serious, but it's not supposed to be a gambling mechanism. The stock market has a purpose, and it is to allocate and provide capital and allow for investment in various companies. Short selling adds no value and has the potential to destroy the stock price of businesses.

I trade options, including shorts, all the time. But I'm not under the impression that it is good. It's just gambling, and unfortunately it's gambling that can come at the expense of other companies and investors.

If a stock is overvalued, just don't buy it. Seems simple enough.

I also don't necessarily advocate banning short positions, but let's not act like it is some necessary element of a functioning market.


100% serious and I was using it as an example that non investors may be able to relate to.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:18 am 
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denisdman wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


Not sure if serious, but it's not supposed to be a gambling mechanism. The stock market has a purpose, and it is to allocate and provide capital and allow for investment in various companies. Short selling adds no value and has the potential to destroy the stock price of businesses.

I trade options, including shorts, all the time. But I'm not under the impression that it is good. It's just gambling, and unfortunately it's gambling that can come at the expense of other companies and investors.

If a stock is overvalued, just don't buy it. Seems simple enough.

I also don't necessarily advocate banning short positions, but let's not act like it is some necessary element of a functioning market.


100% serious and I was using it as an example that non investors may be able to relate to.

Surely you can see the major flaw in the analogy as others have pointed out though, right?

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:18 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


I don’t like aggressively and actively bankrupting companies.

Where would Tesla be if the short sellers succeeded in destroying that company multiple times?


Companies that are well run do not get bankrupted by short sellers. Often times, short sellers expose frauds. Citron has many times. It seems you have more faith in corporate execs lining their own pockets by using aggressive accounting than the forensic accountants who try to expose frauds and fund themselves by short selling.

If your only option is to buy a stock long, then capital gets misallocated. Each business is measured by their returns on capital, and fundamental investors and activists push management teams to properly run these companies.

Short selling is a vital check on the system. Sure some funds abuse it. But many more shops are irrationally pumping overvalued stocks.



Why is it a necessity to have long options either? Why can't people just buy and sell shares of companies they like?

To say that shorts are necessary because of long positions is completely missing the point.

Think beyond the current system.


Options are used to earn income (covered calls), to hedge investments, and earn returns based on your view of the market.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:19 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
storkinastorm wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


Not sure if serious, but it's not supposed to be a gambling mechanism. The stock market has a purpose, and it is to allocate and provide capital and allow for investment in various companies. Short selling adds no value and has the potential to destroy the stock price of businesses.

I trade options, including shorts, all the time. But I'm not under the impression that it is good. It's just gambling, and unfortunately it's gambling that can come at the expense of other companies and investors.

If a stock is overvalued, just don't buy it. Seems simple enough.

I also don't necessarily advocate banning short positions, but let's not act like it is some necessary element of a functioning market.


100% serious and I was using it as an example that non investors may be able to relate to.

Surely you can see the major flaw in the analogy as others have pointed out though, right?


Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:20 am 
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pittmike wrote:
They get rid of futures too. That is just gambling.


Every major company uses futures to hedge risk. Currency, interest rates, and commodities.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:27 am 
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shakes wrote:
Harvard Dan wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Dignified Rube wrote:
I suspect this is only going to escalate with silver being next to go a lot higher. People are completely fed up with the rigged game against them in the markets and with being forced to use a fiat currency that only devalues because of government money printing. If silver doesn't bust the system, people will next pull their deposits from the banks. Yes, we'll see bank runs.

Although he was kidding, JORR was right when he said this movement is the rise of the Prols.



I wasn't kidding.


I started saying this a few years ago here, and my observation has become more valid with each passing day: We are in the midst of a massive legitimacy crisis wherein our cornerstone social institutions and their leading figures are held in complete and utter contempt by vast sectors of the population.

From the perspective of political economy, this means that the neoliberal order is dead, but (as Zizek says) it just doesn't know it yet. Neoliberalism has failed, but nothing else has succeeded, so the neoliberal elites continue to operate as if "everything is generally good" (to borrow a Brickism) even as all that they once considered solid melts into air. It has become fashionable within the non-corporate media to say that the U.S. is approaching a state of civil war. But such a prognosis overstates the coherence of the current moment. Our society is not cleanly divided along a single line but is instead fractured into a kaleidoscope of antagonistic identities, competing interests and shifting alliances. This is simultaneously the end of something and the start of something, but nobody knows what just yet.


We may eventually see an end to our current Party system. We've seen throughout our history parties come and go or even change their planks. The coalitions put together by the Republicans and Democrats seem to becoming a bit more shaky, where those towards the center of both parties are trying to lasso in what the status quo might call the extremes (be it the Bernie Bros or the Tea Partiers).



that's all I've ever wanted, the death of the 2 party system. It's the #1 reason I supported Trump from day 1.

The two party system is the single biggest reason this country has gone to shit. Both parties suck.

Shakes....I've been with you in this camp for a long time. We're still far away from this happening, but it's on the horizon.

The problem is, it's still about the money trail. We can add a party or change the 2 we have and if we don't get the lifers out of the system, as well as the dirty money that backs it....nothing will change. It will be re-arranging the deck furniture.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:27 am 
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To be clear, I don't generally advocate positions which dictate what does and does not "add value." That is completely subjective and is often the result of a totalitarian mindset.

But in the context of what we are discussing here and who are the "bad guys", the argument gets twisted (by talking heads) into a belief that short-selling is just this absolute necessity of a functioning market that the mean redditors are exploiting. It's not. The hedge funds themselves are gambling, which is allowed. They can't come back when the gambling bites them and act like they had no choice but to participate in this completely voluntary and infinitely risky method of investing.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:29 am 
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Stupid question...The benefit for the original stockholder, the one lending their stock to be shorted. Are they doing that to gather anything on a investment that they deemed lost already? The fee is better than where they might be at the end of the day?

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:30 am 
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