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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:37 am 
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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:41 am 
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billypootons wrote:
Can someone explain when the repayment for the short is due? Can't the hedges just sit and wait until this all dies down to cover the shorts? Or is there some requirement they have to show liquidity to cover the short at the current market price? Why cant they just wait this out and then get out?


there is a daily borrow rate. sometimes its 3% sometimes its 30% the price of the stock is 300 dollars you are paying daily .02 to .24 per share to borrow it every day its $300. keep in mind they borrowed it at $5-20 per share.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:43 am 
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denisdman wrote:
pittmike wrote:
They get rid of futures too. That is just gambling.


Every major company uses futures to hedge risk. Currency, interest rates, and commodities.


But the market doesn't operate in a vacuum. The tools used to hedge risk and being exploited for pure profit.

What's happening now seems like another go around with the CDOs and synthetic CDOs which led to the housing crisis, but isolated on individual companies rather than the entire US housing market.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:45 am 
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Harvard Dan wrote:
Stupid question...The benefit for the original stockholder, the one lending their stock to be shorted. Are they doing that to gather anything on a investment that they deemed lost already? The fee is better than where they might be at the end of the day?


The original shareholder still owns the stock and would profit if the price goes up...allowing his broker to lend it out adds some additional interest income (if his broker shares it with the customer, as Interactive Brokers does).

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:46 am 
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Brick wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Do not listen to the older congress people trying to act like they are going to heavily restrict short selling.

They are going after retail investors.

Man I hate these crypt keeper looking politicians we have.


Curious, why does short selling bother you? If a stock is overvalued, what is one supposed to do?

There is way more momentum behind irrational buying than short selling. Most hedge funds are net long by a wide margin.

You realize when you gamble against a team, you are selling them short? It is the same thing in the market, you are simply betting against a company.


I don’t like aggressively and actively bankrupting companies.

Where would Tesla be if the short sellers succeeded in destroying that company multiple times?


Companies that are well run do not get bankrupted by short sellers. Often times, short sellers expose frauds. Citron has many times. It seems you have more faith in corporate execs lining their own pockets by using aggressive accounting than the forensic accountants who try to expose frauds and fund themselves by short selling.

If your only option is to buy a stock long, then capital gets misallocated. Each business is measured by their returns on capital, and fundamental investors and activists push management teams to properly run these companies.

Short selling is a vital check on the system. Sure some funds abuse it. But many more shops are irrationally pumping overvalued stocks.

Short sellers may find fraud but mostly they use their power to try and destroy the company. Gamestop isn't a great company but they aren't being sold short to look for fraud. They are being sold short so hedge funds can make money on their demise.


I think Short sellers do find fraud and have use. But I also believe they can artificially move the market but that may be changing. typically a giant short by a company like Citron and Melvin are followed with a Short Report as to why they think the Short was the right move. I believe this artificially sets the stock on the downside and they get exactly what they want. Well I believe through the internet's power to quickly "organize" retail investors these companies wills top putting out these short reports because the moment they do, there will be squeezes everywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:49 am 
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In any equity or futures market, you have the participants who need to use it (like farmers), and you have participants who don't need to use it (speculators)...but the speculators are just as important to the market, as they provide the necessary liquidity.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:50 am 
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storkinastorm wrote:
To be clear, I don't generally advocate positions which dictate what does and does not "add value." That is completely subjective and is often the result of a totalitarian mindset.

But in the context of what we are discussing here and who are the "bad guys", the argument gets twisted (by talking heads) into a belief that short-selling is just this absolute necessity of a functioning market that the mean redditors are exploiting. It's not. The hedge funds themselves are gambling, which is allowed. They can't come back when the gambling bites them and act like they had no choice but to participate in this completely voluntary and infinitely risky method of investing.

You all know much more about this stuff than I do but this seems inarguable to me based on what I've read.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:01 pm 
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People also forget that hedge funds participate in a wide range of "bets" that often have nothing to do with the markets. Take the City of Chicago's idiotic decision to lease out the parking meters in 2008. A hedge fund bet 1.1 billion (via giving it to the city in a lump sum), that they could make more than that in meter revenue over the next 75 years. Turned out to be a great bet for the hedge fund and a disastrous one for Chicago (the fund has already recouped the 1.1b and has 60+ years of profit left), but in an alternate universe it could have turned out differently.

The point is, no one should feel sorry for these funds when they lose a bet.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:06 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
denisdman wrote:
pittmike wrote:
They get rid of futures too. That is just gambling.


Every major company uses futures to hedge risk. Currency, interest rates, and commodities.


But the market doesn't operate in a vacuum. The tools used to hedge risk and being exploited for pure profit.

What's happening now seems like another go around with the CDOs and synthetic CDOs which led to the housing crisis, but isolated on individual companies rather than the entire US housing market.


Everyone is trying to profit. The risk takers are making a market, adding liquidity, and helping with price discovery.

I get it. Short selling is a dirty business. Capitalism is a dirty economic system. Most people seem to hate it except when it benefits them.

This stuff happened before in the dot com bubble. The bubbles happen because too many people are pushing on one side. And getting rid of short selling only adds more pressure to the winning side.

I have never short sold. I do not buy on leverage. So ultimately I do not care. I am merely explaining the counter arguments to I hate hedge funds and short sellers. I prefer open and free markets.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:15 pm 
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Short sellers are the same as those assholes playing the Don't Pass Bar at the craps table.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:16 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
People also forget that hedge funds participate in a wide range of "bets" that often have nothing to do with the markets. Take the City of Chicago's idiotic decision to lease out the parking meters in 2008. A hedge fund bet 1.1 billion (via giving it to the city in a lump sum), that they could make more than that in meter revenue over the next 75 years. Turned out to be a great bet for the hedge fund and a disastrous one for Chicago (the fund has already recouped the 1.1b and has 60+ years of profit left), but in an alternate universe it could have turned out differently.

The point is, no one should feel sorry for these funds when they lose a bet.


basically. if they see a misprice in any market they will pounce on it.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:19 pm 
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denis reads Ebeneezer Scrooge as a hero in the first half of A Christmas Carol

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:21 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I prefer open and free markets.


Then you must not be in favor of trading platforms preventing them simply because hedge funds have a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:25 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I have never short sold. I do not buy on leverage. So ultimately I do not care. I am merely explaining the counter arguments to I hate hedge funds and short sellers. I prefer open and free markets.
I'm still trying to figure out how this can be said. I prefer open and free markets while defending hedge funds which by design are not open and free markets.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:43 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Most people seem to hate it except when it benefits them.


Which, in this case, perfectly describes the hedge funds.


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:45 pm 
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Market's looking a bit spooked today.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:47 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Market's looking a bit spooked today.

GME is only up 70% today. Slow day for sure...

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:50 pm 
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Extremely low effort but whatever

Image

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:51 pm 
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:lol: :lol:

It looks like we fucked over the GOAT,
https://www.radio.com/670thescore/sport ... Xt1NL_ieJs

Don't let up, make him keep losing, that is how will honor his legacy


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:51 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I prefer open and free markets.


Then you must not be in favor of trading platforms preventing them simply because hedge funds have a problem.


Exactly. It was a dumb move on many levels.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:04 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
denis reads Ebeneezer Scrooge as a hero in the first half of A Christmas Carol


Not Old Man Potter?

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:05 pm 
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If you don't know the rules don't play the game....think I heard that on Stocks & Jocks

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:12 pm 
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Harvard Dan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
denis reads Ebeneezer Scrooge as a hero in the first half of A Christmas Carol


Not Old Man Potter?


Lol, I’d be more likely to insure him.

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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:33 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
billypootons wrote:
Or is there some requirement they have to show liquidity to cover the short at the current market price?


Yes (maintenance margin)

"The check is in the mail"

"I wire in every day"


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:34 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
They get rid of futures too. That is just gambling.

Uh, no

Why do you hate farmers and food producers?


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:36 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
denis reads Ebeneezer Scrooge as a hero in the first half of A Christmas Carol

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:38 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Dignified Rube wrote:
I suspect this is only going to escalate with silver being next to go a lot higher. People are completely fed up with the rigged game against them in the markets and with being forced to use a fiat currency that only devalues because of government money printing. If silver doesn't bust the system, people will next pull their deposits from the banks. Yes, we'll see bank runs.

Although he was kidding, JORR was right when he said this movement is the rise of the Prols.



I wasn't kidding.


I started saying this a few years ago here, and my observation has become more valid with each passing day: We are in the midst of a massive legitimacy crisis wherein our cornerstone social institutions and their leading figures are held in complete and utter contempt by vast sectors of the population.

I stole this line for a joke "My 6 year old just said to me" tweet

Hope that's ok


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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:50 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: GameStop
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:53 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Dignified Rube wrote:
I suspect this is only going to escalate with silver being next to go a lot higher. People are completely fed up with the rigged game against them in the markets and with being forced to use a fiat currency that only devalues because of government money printing. If silver doesn't bust the system, people will next pull their deposits from the banks. Yes, we'll see bank runs.

Although he was kidding, JORR was right when he said this movement is the rise of the Prols.



I wasn't kidding.


I started saying this a few years ago here, and my observation has become more valid with each passing day: We are in the midst of a massive legitimacy crisis wherein our cornerstone social institutions and their leading figures are held in complete and utter contempt by vast sectors of the population.

I stole this line for a joke "My 6 year old just said to me" tweet

Hope that's ok


:lol:

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