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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:21 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Like you and this murderer are the sole members of the PARENTING IS HARD club?

You have what, three kids? All older at this point than my two and a half year old, and I've yelled at him and had some rough days, but never, ever in my wildest, sleep deprived or IPA induced state did it even cross my mind to tie MY CHILD's "hands and feet together, put a sock in his mouth, and wrap tape around his mouth and neck," because I needed sleep.

That is indefensible. Jeez Alou.


I didn't defend any of that.
But you are defending somebody who actually did just that! We're not taking about a spanking, or shaking a kid here. Hell even forgetting a kid in a carseat might be more understandable than this. Money and support has nothing to do with knowingly hog tying and gagging an infant so you can get some peace and quiet.

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Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:22 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Neither are mine to give, but I’d say you can be forgiven (and seek redemption) from a prison cell. By the most charitable reading of her past two decades, that’s what she’s done.

Asking out of a punishment received for murdering a toddler makes me suspect she’s not exactly owning the severity of the crime.


Why? Would 10 more years make a difference? Her kids having their mom might be good. If she murders them, I'll say I was wrong, but this one seems a lot better to take a chance on than some of the others that have been let go. I understand how this can happen though, I don't feel that way about some other crimes.

:lol: :lol:

This is a depressing thread but that made it worth reading so far. Almost spit up my drink while reading that and laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:29 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
It is our place as a society to help others. And what better way then through forgiveness.
Is there some obscure rule I am unaware of that states forgiveness is not able to be obtained or is somehow invalid if the party being offered forgiveness is in a prison cell?

Perfectly stated.
Its puke worthy and incredibly hypocritical the disdain that Seacrest has for women who get an abortion, but advocates here for the release of a mother who knowingly suffocated a real living, breathing infant in the name of "helping others" and "forgiveness."

Perhaps instead of casting stones at women who go to planned parenthood, you should be trying to help them out by more than just offering prayers there, Crest.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Seems reasonable to me, 20 years still isn’t nothing.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:34 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
I think the case is troubling Spiral not just because the woman is being released, but the way the article is being written, it seems to write off the murder as just some unfortunate mistake. I mean, even JLN pointed out the “wording”. Like it was passive, as if her delusions of hearing voices can be explained away as a momentary lapse of judgement.

That might be believable if in a moment of panic and anger, she grabbed the child by the neck and pressed too hard. I’ve seen cases like that happen on court shows, or true crime shows. That can at least be looked as…it was a horrible moment. Still should be prosecuted, still should be punished. But maybe that can be re-addressed after 20 years of redeeming yourself.
But murder is about intent, and the intent was to *kill* the child. Not shut her up. This wasn’t a case where she put her hand over the baby’s mouth angrily and kept it there until she stopped breathing. She forcibly put something in the baby’s mouth, bound her, and suffocated her until she was dead. If she did that to a peer, or someone older than her, would she be given the same second chance? Should she? That opens up a whole other can of worms.
So what seems to bother him, and he can correct me if I’m wrong, is that what he foresees is people taking advantage of this mindset—not just the mindset of the woman trying to get out of jail—but the mindset of people like Coleman (who sounds more like a defense attorney than a prosecutor here), and the writer of the article. The fear of a court that would be willing to forgive, at this point, something like this. Forget us plebes, the system itself could change. Though I wouldn’t say she “got off free” since she did do 20 years of time.

The intent in this case isn’t much different than Eric Smith who bludgeoned a 4 year-old to death when he was 12. He didn’t just take out his aggression on this kid, he thoroughly beat him, and even sodomized him. That’s why he’ll stay in prison for the rest of his life. According to whatever I’ve read about him, he’s fully remorseful and seemingly stable. But he should *never* get out of prison, because if you have a mindset, anytime in your life, that allows you to go that far…that means there is something in your brain that’s broken and can’t be fixed. And I wouldn’t be comfortable letting someone like that back into society. Growing up in abusive households is almost a calling card for serial killers. Are we giving them a pass too?

Plenty of mothers out there have been put in the exact same position as that woman, with post partum depression, and the outcome wasn’t murder.


I can see that, I didn't get the feel of passivity from the article but could see how somebody would. I might feel differently because I have a friend that I think could/would have hurt her kid if her family did not intervene. She's not terrible.

I've always been more prone to for lack of a better way of expressing it being sad than being angry when things are difficult. When you read some of these stories it's not always hard to see how things go the way they do in these especially if they have legit mental issues. As I said it's "challenging" at times and I don't have the issues others do and have been fortunate to have support. If not for that, it's not completely surprising or in some cases unforeseeable how things like this happen.

I think it is different from Eric Smith's case but could see having a discussion that it's not.

These cases are pretty rare and I think that's because most people aren't capable of it or it takes a special kind of crazy.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:35 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:

This is a depressing thread but that made it worth reading so far. Almost spit up my drink while reading that and laughing


It was a pretty good one. I hope it was read with the intent/tone that I typed it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:12 pm 
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I've never killed my child. Im sorry if thats a controversial take! I guess I'm just old fashioned that way!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:15 pm 
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Honestly, I love redemption stories but if it were my call I'd be too worried about history repeating itself

Even if I knew the woman and was 100% convinced she had changed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:16 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:

I think it is different from Eric Smith's case but could see having a discussion that it's not.

These cases are pretty rare and I think that's because most people aren't capable of it or it takes a special kind of crazy.


well, true, in that the murder smith committed was much more grisly. but if someone were to use the same excuse about abuse or write up an article that seems sympathetic, i think people would have a similar reaction that they are to this one. especially since we're talking about a 2 year-old.

you had brought up andrea yates, and that's a good comparison of the post partum thing. she really was out of her mind. and there's no rehabilitating her, i don't think. but had she only drowned one kid, would people give her a second chance?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:34 am 
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I don't see a problem with her actions in the first place. A woman should have control over her body

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