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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:57 am 
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Brick wrote:
No. He was wrong. Technology has improved life in hundreds of ways. Those who find life unfulfilling would feel the same way if they were still tending to a farm with an ox and a plow. A portion of society is always going to feel unfulfilled no matter what they have and how they live.


Brick doesn't believe in global warming. Very sad!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:59 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
He made some interesting points.
I dunno. I think he mailed it in.


Some of the content was explosive, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:40 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Fun fact :
The CIA fried his brain with copious amounts of LSD.


This seems to be the point everyone is missing.

The Ted we are talking about was created by the government maybe not to exactly what he did, but to be an agent of some kind of chaos.

I preface by saying I haven't studied him but I think he would have been better off taking the step into nihilism rather than some kind of sentimentalist. His philosophy, taken to its logical conclusion, would have decried the creation of stone tolls as somehow taking us away from our natural state.

He has kernels of wisdom in his philosophy. They are unsurprising wrapped in a lot of crazy

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:57 am 
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Before I found out a senior thesis was optional I was planning to write it on the idea that technology was actually a bad thing for society.

I could've been the Unibomber if I chose to write that paper.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:05 am 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:06 am 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?

Yeah. No one followed sports teams until Facebook was created.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:17 am 
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Brick wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?

Yeah. No one followed sports teams until Facebook was created.


Of course you ignored the part about "artificial goals, consumption of entertainment, and political activism" which you can't deny has increased dramatically as more and more people started having access to high speed internet and smartphones.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:19 am 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?


maybe, but as others have said, he doesn't consider that the life of a serf (which existed in some areas all the way to the 20th century) was equally devoid of meaning.

I doubt early humans, residing in caves and struggling every day for existence before dying at 30 ever sat back and thought "this is great"

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:22 am 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
Brick wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?

Yeah. No one followed sports teams until Facebook was created.


Of course you ignored the part about "artificial goals, consumption of entertainment, and political activism" which you can't deny has increased dramatically as more and more people started having access to high speed internet and smartphones.

You asked "doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?" and there is a huge hole in that description involving "following sports teams".

He made some generic comments about technology, and now like a person looking at clouds if you stare at it long enough you start to see the shapes in them that were suggested to you.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:23 am 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
Brick wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?

Yeah. No one followed sports teams until Facebook was created.


Of course you ignored the part about "artificial goals, consumption of entertainment, and political activism" which you can't deny has increased dramatically as more and more people started having access to high speed internet and smartphones.

People were most fulfilled during the Black Plague. The entertainment was cholera.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:25 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?


maybe, but as others have said, he doesn't consider that the life of a serf (which existed in some areas all the way to the 20th century) was equally devoid of meaning.

I doubt early humans, residing in caves and struggling every day for existence before dying at 30 ever sat back and thought "this is great"


There are only two options: the desire to live in the present date, or the desire to be return to feudalism. There is no in between.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:28 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?


maybe, but as others have said, he doesn't consider that the life of a serf (which existed in some areas all the way to the 20th century) was equally devoid of meaning.

I doubt early humans, residing in caves and struggling every day for existence before dying at 30 ever sat back and thought "this is great"


True, I think there is a middle ground though. Personally, I think we are much worse off as a society since the invention of the smartphone. It's a very useful tool for many things but look at our world today. Trump would have never been elected President without it. Too much information flow is driving us crazy!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:31 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?


maybe, but as others have said, he doesn't consider that the life of a serf (which existed in some areas all the way to the 20th century) was equally devoid of meaning.

I doubt early humans, residing in caves and struggling every day for existence before dying at 30 ever sat back and thought "this is great"


There are only two options: the desire to live in the present date, or the desire to be return to feudalism. There is no in between.

There really isn't because of medicine. You don't get to pick and choose technologies. One has always lead to another, and/or crosspollinated.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:32 am 
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I know it's debated on if the translation is actually correct into English, but I think "life is suffering" is still one of the most accurate quotes. Humans are very good at solving the current sources of suffering and sometimes creating new ones with an overall increase in the quality of life. That makes it theoretically possible that someone who had to make the choice to send their 8 year old kid to work in a dangerous factory was more "fulfilled" than someone today who has to decide if that 8 year old can do karate, baseball, and swimming or if there is only time to do karate and baseball.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:38 am 
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Brick wrote:
I know it's debated on if the translation is actually correct into English, but I think "life is suffering" is still one of the most accurate quotes. Humans are very good at solving the current sources of suffering and sometimes creating new ones with an overall increase in the quality of life. That makes it theoretically possible that someone who had to make the choice to send their 8 year old kid to work in a dangerous factory was more "fulfilled" than someone today who has to decide if that 8 year old can do karate, baseball, and swimming or if there is only time to do karate and baseball.

"Life sucks, then you die" was big for a while


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:41 am 
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"Make the best of it" doesn't seem to go over too well these days.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:44 am 
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blackhawksfan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?


maybe, but as others have said, he doesn't consider that the life of a serf (which existed in some areas all the way to the 20th century) was equally devoid of meaning.

I doubt early humans, residing in caves and struggling every day for existence before dying at 30 ever sat back and thought "this is great"


True, I think there is a middle ground though. Personally, I think we are much worse off as a society since the invention of the smartphone. It's a very useful tool for many things but look at our world today. Trump would have never been elected President without it. Too much information flow is driving us crazy!


I see the real danger of the emergence of the mobile phone is that, while it a tool for bringing people closer it's application has resulted in greater personal isolation

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:57 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
blackhawksfan wrote:
Summary of his Manifesto:

He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams..[76]
.[80] [/size]


Doesn't that perfectly describe the social media age we live in?


maybe, but as others have said, he doesn't consider that the life of a serf (which existed in some areas all the way to the 20th century) was equally devoid of meaning.

I doubt early humans, residing in caves and struggling every day for existence before dying at 30 ever sat back and thought "this is great"


True, I think there is a middle ground though. Personally, I think we are much worse off as a society since the invention of the smartphone. It's a very useful tool for many things but look at our world today. Trump would have never been elected President without it. Too much information flow is driving us crazy!


I see the real danger of the emergence of the mobile phone is that, while it a tool for bringing people closer it's application has resulted in greater personal isolation


Good point.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:11 am 
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it's the "don't blame the technology, blame the dependence on it" that pretty much sums it up.

i think any of us who were on-line in the 80's/90's/early 00's were perfectly content to spend some time on the interwebs, and then come back to society.

now the interwebs IS society, or at least pushes a "new normal" for society.

kids are growing up more isolated too. people wonder why there's this explosion of "mental health" crisis...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:16 am 
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He was absolutely right.

We're worse off with technology than before. Anyone who grew up in the 70s knows this to be true, when we didn't have technology but lots of board games and little league games.

Children are getting no real education being on their devices all day. It's a catastrophe.

Image


Last edited by Dignified Rube on Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:25 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:23 am 
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Brick wrote:
I know it's debated on if the translation is actually correct into English, but I think "life is suffering" is still one of the most accurate quotes. Humans are very good at solving the current sources of suffering and sometimes creating new ones with an overall increase in the quality of life. That makes it theoretically possible that someone who had to make the choice to send their 8 year old kid to work in a dangerous factory was more "fulfilled" than someone today who has to decide if that 8 year old can do karate, baseball, and swimming or if there is only time to do karate and baseball.


To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.

Nietzsche.


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